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Chorus from "American Pie"
So bye-bye, miss American pie (TG).
Drove my Chevy to the levee (corporate sponsorship),
But the levee was dry.
And them good old boys (nascar) were drinkin’ whiskey and rye
Singin’, "this will be the day that I (they) die.
"this will be the day that I (they) die."
To sing about the IRL, they would first have to even care about the IRL. They don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by dataman1
Speaking of songs, I was watching a documentary about Garriosn Keillor last night. You don't have to be a regular listener to his Prairie Home Companion radio show to know how the following quote applies to TG's situation: "It's tiime for a slice of Be-Bop-A-Re-Bop Rhubarb Pie, the pie that washes away the taste of shame and humiliation."
I'm sure you'll disagree with me, but CART was not as healthy as it appeared in the early 90's. Specifically after the retirements of all the "old guard" (AJ, Mears, Mario, Rutherford, Big Al, etc.) some people were starting to loose interest. It was always going to be hard to keep many people's interest after those guys were gone. And don't fool yourself, the only reason that the majority of fans knew anyting about Nigel (these arguments always seem to devolve to him being some knight in shining armor) was because they wanted "one of our guys" to beat him. In other words, CART may have been on ok footing world-wide (for the moment and at any moment "their" focus could just as easly turn back to F1, and did), but domesticaly it was shaky anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
Obviously I don't have a crystal ball, and neither do you, but I think that AOWR was in for a bit of a downturn in the mid 90s, with or without the IRL.
"But one thing that we do know is that sponsors don't like instability (proven by CART in its last days)" That is exactly right. So why would you want to go screwing around with something that is showing signs of life, no matter how weak those signs may be?
You know how I love data, Chuck. The data shows that CART's domestic ratings in the early '90's just for Long Beach were within a gnat's breath of where Indy's are now (3.0 vs. 3.9). There was a qualifying session on ESPN2 from Motegi which got a .4 in the wee hours of the morning (I want to say this was in '96 or so)... while the IRL's primetime rating for Richmond was a .22 (according to what I just read).Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
CART was not perfect. And likely there would have been setbacks, just as there are with any business. But let's state the obvious: CART was a series which attracted a range of talent from all over the world: from Nigel Mansell to Ayrton Senna. Just recently, Carl Haas quoted his budget when Mansell was on the team at around $25 million. How could they have that much? Because sponsors deemed it to be worth that much. One of my former companies paid in excess of $1 million a year to Team Rahal for an associate sponsorship, in addition to the technical support we gave to the team. This was a time when teams were still developing their own chassis, and engine manufacturers were still anxiously coming in. The big names in CART: Andretti, Unser, Fittipaldi, Sullivan, Tracy, Rahal, etc. - they weren't famous for wiggling their beeehinds in bikinis. They were the real deal... and everybody knew it.
Yes, possibly a bit of a downturn. But saying that this is just a "bit of a downturn" is like comparing Apple Computer's downturn today to that of AIG's.Quote:
Obviously I don't have a crystal ball, and neither do you, but I think that AOWR was in for a bit of a downturn in the mid 90s, with or without the IRL.
I didn't force George out the door, Chuck. What they do at IMS now is all on the Hulman family. Signs of life, huh? So you're seeing some "green shoots", eh? :D I'll give you this, the patient still has a heartbeat. But as far as I can see, that's about it.Quote:
"But one thing that we do know is that sponsors don't like instability (proven by CART in its last days)"
That is exactly right. So why would you want to go screwing around with something that is showing signs of life, no matter how weak those signs may be?
All I'm seeing from this is people talking about cutting costs and yet, no one knows how to enhance value. As I've said many, many times: Ferrari works a lot harder at enhancing and maintaining the perceived value of its cars than it does trying to squeeze pennies out of the production process. You cannot sell a once premier product as still being premier, when it has the appearance of being cut rate.
The Indianapolis 500 was a race that attracted talent from all over the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
CART was a series that sued to be allowed to race there.
What CART was, was shown when they lost Indy.
If we are looking at ratings trends, maybe it's better to look at how the IRL developed over the years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
This is from an old thread (2006) in *****.
IRL TV RATINGS TREND
..............1996.......1997.........1998.......1 999.........2000.........2001
Walt Disney
...World......2.2.(ABC)..1.8.(ABC)....1.8.(ABC)..1 .8.(ABC)....1.3.(ABC)
Phoenix.......2.2.(ABC)..1.8.(ABC)....1.9.(ABC)..1 .9.(FOX)....1.7.(ABC)....1.0.(ABC)
Indy 500......6.6.(ABC)..6.6.(ABC)....5.5.(ABC)..5.0.(A BC)....4.4.(ABC)....5.2.(ABC)
...Rainout...............4.3.(ABC)................ ..................................
...Conclusion............5.0.(ABC)................ ..................................
Loudon........1.6.(ABC)..1.4.(ABC)....1.3.(CBS)
Las Vegas.....1.4.(ABC)..1.1.(ABC)....0.3.(TNN)..0.25. (ESPN2).0.3.(ABC)
Texas I..................0.6.(ESPN2)..0.4.(TNN)..x.x.(FO X)....x.x.(ESPN)...0.5.(ESPN)
Pikes Peak...............1.4.(ABC)....1.1.(ABC)..x.x.(FO X)....0.6.(ABC)....0.7.(ABC)
Pikes Peak II....................................x.x.(FOX)
Charlotte................1.0.(CBS)....0.9.(TNN)
Dover.................................1.6.(CBS)..1 .3.(FOX)
Atlanta...............................0.9.(TNN)..x .x.(FOX)....x.x.(ESPN2)..0.6.(ESPN2)
Texas II..............................1.1.(ABC)..0.4.(AB C)....0.8.(ABC)....0.4.(ESPN2)
Kentucky.......................................... ............0.59.(ESPN)..0.9.(ABC)
Homestead......................................... .........................0.8.(ABC)
Richmond.......................................... .........................0.5.(ESPN)
Kansas............................................ .........................1.3.(ABC)
Nashville......................................... .........................0.6.(ESPN)
Gateway........................................... .........................0.4.(ESPN)
Chicagoland....................................... .........................0.9.(ABC)
.................2002.........2003........2004.... ......2005........2006
Walt Disney
...World.........Dropped from schedule after 2000
Phoenix..........1.2.(ABC)....0.9.(ABC)...0.9.(ABC ).....0.6.(ABC)...Dropped from schedule after 2005
Indy 500.........4.8.(ABC)....4.2.(ABC)...4.1.(ABC).... .6.5.(ABC)...5.0.(ABC)
...Rain Delay 1...........................3.6.(ABC)
...Rain Delay 2...........................3.3.(ABC)
Loudon...........Dropped from schedule after 1998
Las Vegas........Dropped from schedule after 2000
Texas I..........0.6.(ESPN)...0.4.(ESPN)..0.4.(ESPN).... 1.0.(ESPN)..0.6.(ESPN)
Pikes Peak.......1.0.(ABC)....0.7.(ABC)...0.7.(ABC)..... 0.8.(ABC)...Dropped after 2005
Charlotte........Dropped from schedule after 1998
Dover............Dropped from schedule after 1999
Atlanta..........0.9.(ABC)....Dropped from schedule after 2002
Texas II.........0.9.(ABC)....0.5.(ESPN)..0.8.(ABC)....D ropped from schedule after 2004
Kentucky.........0.9.(ABC)....0.8.(ABC)...0.8.(ABC ).....0.9.(ABC)...X.X.(ABC)
Homestead........1.5.(ABC)....1.8.(ABC)...0.9.(ESP N)....0.6.(ESPN)..0.8.(ABC)
.................................................. ......0.2.(ESPN2)
Richmond.........0.6.(ESPN)...0.48(ESPN)..0.24.(ES PN2)..0.4.(ESPN2).0.4.(ESPN2)
Kansas...........1.3.(ABC)....1.2.(ABC)...1.2.(ABC ).....1.1.(ABC)...1.2.(ABC)
Nashville........0.5.(ESPN2)..0.3.(ESPN2).0.3.(ESP N)....0.5.(ESPN)..0.4.(ESPN)
Gateway..........0.8.(ESPN)...0.7.(ABC)....Dropped from schedule after 2003
Chicagoland......1.1.(ABC)....0.8.(ABC)...0.8.(ABC ).....1.0.(ABC)...x.x.(ABC)
California.......0.5.(ESPN)...0.6.(ABC)...0.1.(ESP N)....0.6.(ESPN)..Dropped after 2005
Nazareth.........1.1.(ABC)....0.6.(ESPN)..0.9.(ABC )....Dropped from schedule after 2004
Michigan.........1.2.(ABC)....1.0.(ABC)...0.8.(ABC ).....1.3.(ABC)...1.0*(ABC)
.....Actual race broadcast @ 12:45 am................................0.2.(ESPN2)
.....*Rain-delayed broadcast with no actual "racing"
Motegi........................0.9.(ABC)...0.1.(ESP N2)...0.0.(ESPN2).0.3.(ESPN)
Milwaukee.................................0.8.(ABC ).....0.4.(ABC)...0.4.(ESPN)
St. Petersburg........................................ ..0.4.(ESPN)..0.5.(ESPN)
Infineon.......................................... ......0.5.(ESPN)..X.X.(ESPN)
Watkins Glen.............................................0 .7.(ABC)...0.8.(ABC)
As you can see, the ratings have been in a continuous downward trend. Most of the races were on network and are now on obscure cable.
Nice article by Robin Miller. Not usual venom spitting.
http://auto-racing.speedtv.com/artic...ny-george-era/
Robin Miller is a nicer guy about it than I would be.
I wont spare or mince words. Tony George has all but killed OW racing. Yes CART should have co-opted him, but after reading Robin's little history perspective, you can understand why they didn't want to deal with him. He was clueless with an ego and a checkbook. They noticed the clueless part but ignored the Ego and checkbook at their peril.
I think the only thing keeping the IRL in business right now is the fact that the Indy 500 needs cars to run every May, and for that to happen, there has to be some form of a series to support the economics of teams owning cars adn running in the race. No series, likely no Indy 500, and Mari Hulman wont let THAT happen.
There is a window of opportunity here though for wiser or deeper pockets (hopefully both to come in) and change the direction of the series. I suspect Roger Penske is looking at it. I suspect Chip Ganassi might be looking at it...and I suspect Kevin Kalkoven will be saying "no...I gave up a lot of dough with Champ Car, you guys figure it out".
NASCAR will want NOTHING to do with this mess. They have their own issues AND people have to realize if they owned the Indy Car series, they would be in dangerous ground with the US Anti-Trust laws.
I do notice Robin supports my idea (it likely was his all along..lol) that the Frances and ISC were very happy to support Tony in his quest to form the IRL though. The France family and NASCAR had no problem with the formation of the IRL but I dont' see them rescuing it now.
No, the IRL will limp along in one form or another, likely with new blood or ownership. There is always someone out there willing to buy low with dreams of selling high.....
Notice though that on this thread it took 20 posts before someone admitted Miller was right. Funny.,...a number of you accused Miller of being a liar. I don't see any apologies from any of the detractors (not that you were Wedge)Quote:
Originally Posted by wedge