Screw Ferrari

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Originally Posted by jens

Considering what can be called as mistakes.

In OZ IMO it was a mistake that Räikkönen wasn't called in for his first pitstop during a safety car phase. He rose to P3, but needed to make a stop very soon anyway and was forced to drop to the back.

At Monaco Kimi got a penalty for a delay of tyres (?). Plus Massa's strategy on a drying circuit wasn't quite the best.

At Valencia Kimi had also a botched pitstop.

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The others you have a point on, but kimi was the one responsible for the bad pitstop at Valencia.

But if we go through like this, we will find every team has made similar mistakes.

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Let us count the mistakes by Ferrari team then.

engine failures at Australia, gearbox problem for kimi in qualy.
Problem fuelling Massa at Canada, but wasn`t that due to a problem not caused by Ferrari?
Problem for kimi at France, cost him two points and the win.
tactical mistake at Silverstone to leave drivers out on old inters.
engine failure for Massa at Hungary, caused by a problem not in the hands of Ferrari, but due to a faulty patch.
Engine failure for Kimi at Valencia, same reasons as above.
Singapore - problem when fuelling Massa.

Now, no team has ever had a perfect season. Ever. Even in 2002 Ferrari of Barrichello failed quite many times.

I also notice you have ignored one posters request to name all those 10 blunders you so loudly talked about.

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The answer to his question was obvious that's why I didn't bother to answer it, and thanks for answering it, looks like there are more than 10 of them blunders.

PS: you forgot to mention their Monaco mistakes, didn't put Kimi's wheels on the car before the 3 ' mark, and than fueled Massa for 60% of the race in changing conditions! ;)
Looking to the list I'm wondering if we are talking about Ferrari or Forti?! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

:laugh:

I dream of Silver Arrows and wake up in a hot sweat with Rons image in my mind.

:)

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dude get a woman !!! :eek: :D

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Originally Posted by Knock-on

Well, I don't know. He was 45 seconds off the lead after his Pit Stop drive through on lap 26 and struggling to overtake SB. he was 22 seconds off the points with a fast car and his team mate 3 places ahead.

He had got that to 35 seconds in 5 laps (Trulli was leading) but then made another mistake and dropped back to 45 seconds.

During the 2nd SC he was right behind HK in 13th but never progressed even though his partner made up places (until he lobbed it off)

He had the fastest car out there and had a chance to get back into the running. However, lack of overtaking slower cars and mistakes left him out of the points.

I can accept that it's the Tyres or the brakes but those are sorted now. i know he's not the best in the wet but it was dry and you cant say the car wasn't performing well because it was the class of the field and 0.5 seconds quicker than the 2nd fastest car in qualifying.

Really, it comes to a time when you have to say that he didn't perform when he had to battle his way through. He had the opportunity to take that race by the scruff of the neck and get a point or two as Lewis did the race before but gave up.

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Yeah, though I think we should remember Kimi moved up through the pit stops ahead of him. I don't recall him doing any actual on track overtaking.

If we look at Kubica, who was directly infront of Massa, he also made hardly any progress.

So whilst I was disappointed to not see Massa progress after his unfortunate pit stop, its slightly unrealistic to have expected him to progress on a track where overtaking was near impossible unless you were 4s a lap quicker (if we use Trulli as a benchmark).

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Originally Posted by Garry Walker

Let us count the mistakes by Ferrari team then.

engine failures at Australia, gearbox problem for kimi in qualy.
Problem fuelling Massa at Canada, but wasn`t that due to a problem not caused by Ferrari?
Problem for kimi at France, cost him two points and the win.
tactical mistake at Silverstone to leave drivers out on old inters.
engine failure for Massa at Hungary, caused by a problem not in the hands of Ferrari, but due to a faulty patch.
Engine failure for Kimi at Valencia, same reasons as above.
Singapore - problem when fuelling Massa.

Now, no team has ever had a perfect season. Ever. Even in 2002 Ferrari of Barrichello failed quite many times.

I also notice you have ignored one posters request to name all those 10 blunders you so loudly talked about.

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Thank you for naming these, as Ioan obviously was unable.

Though yes these can be classed as errors, but these are not really fundamental errors I assumed Ioan was refering to.

For example Silverstone, wrong tyre call, but at the time, forecast was for heavy rain in 5 minutes, so it was the right call. Its what we call bad luck, not much they could really have done. Same with any strategy messed up by SC issues, its purely luck of the draw.

So sure, we can pin them down for 10 mistakes this year, if we going to include tactical errors and mechanical failures.

But Ioan, I'd like to point out, if these are the mistakes your refering to, they had more than 10 in 5 seasons when Todt was in charge.

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

Thank you for naming these, as Ioan obviously was unable.

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And you say you are not picking on me?! :laugh:

BTW I even completed Garry's list of blunders, you just need to put your glasses on. :rotflmao:

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Originally Posted by ioan

And you say you are not picking on me?! :laugh:

BTW I even completed Garry's list of blunders, you just need to put your glasses on. :rotflmao:

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No, I'm not picking on you, I saying you were unable to give me a list, I asked you twice, and you ignored it. So just pointing out a fact.

Though I don't really want to go off track into personal arguments, I'd rather keep on topic of F1. However, just to confirm, the type of mistakes you are refering to for this season. Are you standing by your statement that they only made on average 2 per season for 5 years when Todt was in charge, of similar mistakes to ones Garry and you have labelled?

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

No, I'm not picking on you, I saying you were unable to give me a list, I asked you twice, and you ignored it. So just pointing out a fact.

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Maybe I had a reason to ignore it, maybe it was because the list was to obvious?
Maybe because I had other things to do than go through the full season and put together a way to long list of Ferrari blunders?
You could have said thans to Garry for providing it because I didn't, but no you had to go the high road:

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Originally Posted by PolePosition_1

... Ioan obviously was unable.

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Well, I call that picking on someone, and I've had enough of you doing it while you keep denying it.
As I had enough of you saying that you would like Massa to win he WDC rather than Hamy, all this while you keep attacking Massa and praising Hamy.

Do you love contradicting yourself so much?

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Originally Posted by ioan

Maybe I had a reason to ignore it, maybe it was because the list was to obvious?
Maybe because I had other things to do than go through the full season and put together a way to long list of Ferrari blunders?
You could have said thans to Garry for providing it because I didn't, but no you had to go the high road:



Well, I call that picking on someone, and I've had enough of you doing it while you keep denying it.
As I had enough of you saying that you would like Massa to win he WDC rather than Hamy, all this while you keep attacking Massa and praising Hamy.

Do you love contradicting yourself so much?

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Well, it obviously wasn't so obvious, as I had to ask you. I didn't realise you were refering to minor incidents as appears to be the case, in which case, your claim that Ferrari only made 10 similar errors in 5 years is totally wrong. They had more than 10 mechanical failures striaght off, if we're classifying strategy errors, pit errors etc, there is absolutely no chance they had 10 in 5 seasons as you have claimed.

And I don't understand about me not thanking Garry, I said "Thank you for naming these". I not sure what else I can do if thats not saying thank you.

I don't particularly recall me attacking Massa. I've criticised him when I believe him to be in the wrong, in same way I've criticised Lewis (Canada this year, his arrogance etc).

You can support a driver and be objective about it. My favourite driver is Alonso, but I'll openly admit that his actions last year with blackmailing Ron Dennis, I disapproved of it. I'm not going to agree with it just because I support him.

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Originally Posted by ioan

The answer to his question was obvious that's why I didn't bother to answer it, and thanks for answering it, looks like there are more than 10 of them blunders.

PS: you forgot to mention their Monaco mistakes, didn't put Kimi's wheels on the car before the 3 ' mark, and than fueled Massa for 60% of the race in changing conditions! ;)
Looking to the list I'm wondering if we are talking about Ferrari or Forti?! :rolleyes:

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No, I made it out as less than 10 blunders from Ferrari. It is not Ferraris problem if their supplier messes up, although of course, this will affect them.

In any case, there have been less blunders from Ferrari this year than there were in 2005 and 2006, with the "dream-team" still together.