Indy Cup Race Thread

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Originally Posted by Lee Roy

Please leave your stereotyping of people and elitism over on the open-wheel forums where it is welcome.

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I don't think that Dave meant that as an insult in any way. I work with a lot of blue collar, union laborers and I would say that at least 40% of the offices/labs/workshops that I go into have some sort of NASCAR paraphenalia in them. By contrast, very few white collar offices that I step into have a NASCAR calendar or die-cast, or poster hanging on the wall.

BTW, to the people that are comparing the Goodyear problems to the Michelin problems of 2005, the issues are completely separate. The F1 tire problem came about because Michelin's construction wasn't compatible with the banking in turn 13 (turn 1 of the oval). It didn't have a single thing to do with the abrasiveness of the track. Goodyear, on the other hand, has nothing to do with the banking (well, ok it has a LITTLE to do with the banking - more with the LACK of banking) but has almost everything to do with the grinding and abrasiveness of the track. Trying to relate the two together is a futile and errant exercise.

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Originally Posted by pdalbey

I don't think that Dave meant that as an insult in any way. I work with a lot of blue collar, union laborers and I would say that at least 40% of the offices/labs/workshops that I go into have some sort of NASCAR paraphenalia in them. By contrast, very few white collar offices that I step into have a NASCAR calendar or die-cast, or poster hanging on the wall.

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Well shoot, there ya go then. All the evidence we need. I guess I'll go and ask for my sister's hand in marriage. :roll:

Doesn't mean much from you, I know the forum you hang out in the most, a noted NASCAR Hate site.

http://www.trackforum.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=111896

Don't go lumping me into that same group. I just noted what I had observed. I did not suggest in any way that NASCAR fans were dumb hillbillies. I don't think that Dave did either. He and I simply said that a lot of blue-collar workers are NASCAR fans.

Yes, I am an IndyCar fan and if Scott Dixon had left skid marks down the front straightaway after winning the 500 this year, I would have said the exact same thing. You can bet your last dollar on it! I didn't like when Wheldon did donuts in turn 4 in 2005 and I certainly didn't like when I showed up for the 2007 500 and Johnson's burnout marks from 2006 were still streaked across the bricks.

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Originally Posted by Lee Roy

WORD!!!!!!!!

I agree wholeheartedly.

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Tony George isn't doing a thing, he said in the Indy Star that it's NASCAR's problem. He isn't changing the track for them. Apparently, he feels if NASCAR fails to run a proper test there to get familiar with the surface, it's not his issue.

You guys probably won't like this at all, but I blame Tony Stewart for this travesty. He went on that anti-Goodyear tire rant back in Atlanta, not taking into account the dynamics of the new car and how it wold affect past set-ups. He took every opportunity to trash Goodyear as ruthlessly as possible, which isn't too surprising since he was a staunch Firestone guy in the IRL. Obviously, Tony isn't a journeyman driver or a snot nosed rookie, whom everyone could blow off. No, he's an elite driver whose word carries some weight. Everybody would pay attention to Stewart whining to get grippier tires.

Well, now you've got 'em. Happy? Stewart's rant cast a shadow over the fact that there were no tire failures at Atlanta. Sure, the tires didn't grip as well, but so what? Deal with it. The new car's chassis dynamics apparently are so different from the old car's, that set-ups are practically going to have to start from square one. It's easy to make the tires a scapegoat, just throwing one set on after another, trying to find grip but also trying to make them last. At Indy, it was clear almost from the start that you couldn't have both.

Goodyear doesn't get off scott free here, either. They need to stand up to the diva drivers when they endlessly complain of something and affirm that in the interest of safety, this is how it is. Some of the old school drivers like Richard Petty and even Bill Elliott probably can't believe how spoiled contemporary drivers are. If you had a tire that wasn't as grippy, you just adjusted your driving style to compensate. No one said this was easy or else everyone would be doing it. But Goodyear also should bring an alternative compound to each track to give the teams an option should the primary compound not work as well as expected, so as to prevent the joke of a race we had on Sunday.

Last thing: a three team tire test doesn't cut it (pun very much intended) when it comes to one of the biggest races of the year for both teams and fans. TG isn't going to change the track surface anytime soon, so NASCAR needs to take IMS a lot more seriously if it wants to continue to have one of it's biggest paydays. Threatening to pull out of Indy isn't going to scare Tony George one bit, not after what he went through with the open wheel war.

Lee Roy, I'm far from a NASCAR hater -- I enjoy NASCAR racing, and Chap makes some good points here.

Read my post above. I don't think NASCAR or Goodyear appreciated their perceived problem from 2007, put the COT on the track for the first time, and completely dismissed the idea that there could be a problem.

The track hasn't been touched since 2005. It's always been the smoothest track in the country. It still is.

I suffered through TWIN last evening to hear what Biffle's take would be on the catastrophe that NASCAR called a race. He seemed to place major blame for the fiasco on the COT. He said the car leans so hard on the right side especially in the corners that the car is literally running on the two right side tires.

The track didn't change and GYear claims the tire compound was the same as last year's race. The only thing different is the POS COT flying brick.

I certainly didn't mean to put down blue collar workers, I am one myself. I am just stating a fact, in a recession the sports that get hurt are sports like racing. I doubt that golf has that problem. My point remains, when the economy recovers attendance will recover also.

david

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Originally Posted by DavePI2

I certainly didn't mean to put down blue collar workers, I am one myself. I am just stating a fact, in a recession the sports that get hurt are sports like racing. I doubt that golf has that problem. My point remains, when the economy recovers attendance will recover also.

david

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It won't if NASCAR doesn't get a clue about the quality of the racing.

NASCAR has been going downhill since it peaked in the 70's, then they got the bright idea to start going BACKWARDS technologically and ruin stock car racing forever. You used to be able to go buy on Monday what you saw race on Sunday. Anything else is not stock car racing. And the cars just kept getting progressively worse as the years went by. It's a shame it took this crappy new car for people to realize just how sad it is.

I was a fan when I was a kid and didn't know any better but I honestly have no idea how anyone can stand to watch a NASCAR "race" (if you want to call it racing) these days. The cars were crappy and the racing a joke back in my day too but it wasn't anywhere near as bad as it is today. The CoT will hopefully go down in history as the final nail in the coffin and people will realize that there's actual REAL racing out there and they shouldn't feel forced to watch this crap.

I know I'm going to get flamed for this post but this is all just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by -Helix-

...just my opinion.

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This comes from someone who thinks the Honda 500 at Indy is considered 'real' racing.