another school shooting in U.S. of A. :(

Jag and Starter--well done. I'm all for responsible gun ownership and common sense measures. Inasmuch as I believe in the Bill of Rights, lawbreakers should lose theirs.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

And then you people wonder why we look at you euro-types with contempt.

Piers Morgan: Deport me? If America won't change its crazy gun laws I may deport myself | Mail Online

Does this arrogant douche actually think we would even bat an eyelash if he left? Jeez. I know many who would pay for his plane ticket.....including the twits at CNN who hired that self-absorbed jerk.

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For once we're in agreement, over your description of Morgan at least.

I fail to understand his popularity over there. You guys love your armed forces, soldiers are worshipped as heroes, but this man deliberately put British and Allied soldiers at risk by sanctioning a front page consisting of a faked photograph of actors in uniform appearing to urinate on Iraqis [link]. Piers Morgan is a worm, and you're more than welcome to him. We don't want him back. Please do not make the mistake of thinking he is in any way representative of Brits or Europeans as a whole.

But he's right on gun control...

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

And then you people wonder why we look at you euro-types with contempt.

Piers Morgan: Deport me? If America won't change its crazy gun laws I may deport myself | Mail Online

Does this arrogant douche actually think we would even bat an eyelash if he left? Jeez. I know many who would pay for his plane ticket.....including the twits at CNN who hired that self-absorbed jerk.

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Don't let the door hit ya Piers.

I'm in. You take paypal?

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Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior

The Jag_Warrior Firearms Reforms Statute:

1) Extended/longer term, "extraordinary" surveillance for any and all persons convicted of a violent felony or a crime which resulted in involuntary confinement to a mental institution for more than 90 days (arbitrary number there). As they are now "prohibited persons", with respect to the firearms laws, any evidence that they have violated this law may subject them to a prison term not to exceed 20 years but not less than 10 years in prison.

2) Gun show reforms which would prevent the sale of firearms in public places or those places open to the public by those without an FFL, unless a mandatory FBI background check has been passed by the purchaser.

3) A Strawman law which mandates that any person who purchases a firearm, and within 12 months desires to sell it to a party who does not possess an FFL, must use the (reformed) FBI Background Check system prior to the sale, to ensure the qualification of said person to purchase or possess a firearm. Any person found to be purchasing one or more firearms for immediate sale across state lines to prohibited persons or organizations may be found guilty of a Federal crime and sentenced to a prison term not to exceed 20 years but not less than 10 years in prison.

4) Court or judicially confirmed (not convicted) members of any and all recognized, organized criminal groups (street gangs, motorcycle gangs, prison gangs, ethnic gangs, RICO violators, etc.) may be seen and dealt with as domestic terrorists - and all of the fun things that come with such a designation. As well, such individuals immediately become "prohibited persons" under the Jag_Warrior Firearms Reforms Statute.

5) The FBI Background Check System will be reformed so that private sellers of firearms will have ready access to the system. And any prohibited individual who attempts to purchase a firearm must have his identity reported to the appropriate police agency within 24 hours. All states will be required to report any and all court enforced mental health submissions/confinements exceeding 90(?) days to the FBI database. Failure to do so may result in the AG of said state being taken into Federal custody by U.S. Marshals and held for contempt before a Federal judge. Conviction may result in a term (ready??? wait for it!) not to exceed 20 years but not less than 10 years in prison.

6) Upon purchasing a new or used firearm from any source that has to or elects to use the background check system, the identity of the purchaser will remain in an FBI database and a chain of ownership will be established for as long as that firearm exists. Should one, who does not currently have an FFL, elect not to use the system and then sell to suspicious purchasers... much like a fully assumable VA mortgage, you can transfer a firearm to whomever you like. But if the transfer is done without a background check, whatever trouble that weapon causes is all on you - because you are the last recorded owner of the house... I mean gun! BTW: *Any release of a name and/or address in this database to any entity outside of the courts or law enforcement shall be punishable by a prison term not to exceed 20 years but not less than 10 years in prison. Breaching said database would carry the same penalties.*

7) Any individual, financial institution, financier or business entity convicted of being engaged in or enabling the smuggling of two or more firearms into or out of the United States (including the laundering of money from said transactions) will have 50% of all assets (beneficial and owned directly) seized by the United States government or be subject to a fine equaling 50% of current net assets payable to the United States government. Upon the date of said charge, all liquid assets shall be frozen and unavailable for use, for continuing business or legal purposes. Any individual and/or the corporate officers of a business entity tried and convicted of this crime may punished by a prison term not to exceed 20 years but not less than 10 years in prison. 100% of these seizure and fine proceeds shall be segregated from general government operating funds and be used solely for violent crime and gang interdiction, police staffing, database operation and victim restitution.

8) Mental health reforms to include (but not limited to) the expansion of psychiatric studies and care at all publicly funded hospitals... especially for veterans. **Hopefully this is the one that someone, with a deeper knowledge than I have, will spend some time on and add something of real value.**

9) Any person deemed to be a "prohibited person" under my reforms, who is found in possession of a firearm or ammunition for a firearm, whether committing some other crime or not, shall be subject to a prison term of... what is it? I know that you know it by now!

Is that all? No. Is that everything? No. Is it a start? I think so... a little bit... even those items that might/would be challenged to the Supreme Court or by civil liberties groups... or my NRA bros. :p

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I really have no problem agreeing with any of that. I have no problems with all transactions being registered or my background being checked. I do it already any time I buy a firearm through a dealer or a retailer.

http://www.mdgunsafety.com/mspfaq.htm

In Maryland, we aren't too far from most of those laws as it is. They just need to be ENFORCED. I have no problem with the gun show loopholes being closed. There is no reason a government official couldn't be present at gun shows to run the background checks through the current system for private party sales. FFL's should already be running the purchases, even on long arms. Every shotgun or rifle I've ever purchased was run through the system. Again, I have no problem with that. I have run all of my private sales/transfers through an FFL or the state police anyway. Yeah, it can be a hassle, but law abiding folks shouldn' have a problem with it, and someone that does, well, I don't need or want to sell them any firearms I am linked to. I don't agree with current statutes that sometimes allow convicted violent offenders to regain their rights to ownership, even for hunting. They did it once, they will do it again.

#4 can be problematic but needs to be better defined anyway. I know a person that holds the office of treasurer in a fraternal organization that was drug into a RICO case because an associate member of the club was arrested for a launtry list of crimes. The guy that was arrested is clearly a POS, but also owns a fairly successful and legitimate food distribution company. He is a very active member of the club, but he hasa few vices people didn't know about. The treasurer was charged with money laundering because he wrote a series of checks to reimburse the guy for food he provided for the organizations events. The feds are asserting the treasurer should have knowledge as a member of the same fraternal organization that the guy was involved in trug trafficking and prostitution (guy likes coke whores apparently).


*wow, I didn't realize we have a character limit. Had to snip the quote just to post my reply.

Still not one bit of that would satisfy gun opponenents who simply want all firearms confiscated.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

And then you people wonder why we look at you euro-types with contempt.

Piers Morgan: Deport me? If America won't change its crazy gun laws I may deport myself | Mail Online

Does this arrogant douche actually think we would even bat an eyelash if he left? Jeez. I know many who would pay for his plane ticket.....including the twits at CNN who hired that self-absorbed jerk.

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This is the only time Morgan, a fool of the second order (I would say 'first', but there are one or two others I'd rank in front of him) and congenital liar, has ever been right.

Are you in favour of his deportation?

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Again. In a police state like yours the only difference is in the color of the uniform and in its name.

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Splendid point! Yes, I'm a fascist and in favour of a police state. Bless you, Tony, for pointing out points of view I hadn't even realised I had.

Happy New Year!

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Originally Posted by keysersoze

So far we have 44 pages to suggest that the US has some "negative phenomenon" that needs fixing.

But I prefer to look at it as "enhanced homeland security" and "healthcare for the mentally ill."

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'Enhanced homeland security', in my eyes = means of exerting further control over the population by means of preying on paranoia regarding terrorism. Certainly it should be opposed by anyone truly in favour of freedom, as opposed to the trite notion of it we see from some here, who just think that spouting the word makes them its only true defender.

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

Don't let the door hit ya Piers.

I'm in. You take paypal?

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So you're not in favour of free speech?

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Originally Posted by Starter

I've made a couple of changes / additions to your statute. Take a look and see if you agree or not.

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Very much so! Great ideas. :up: That's how these things get done (right); with people who are pushing for the same goal (increasing public safety and lessening firearms related violence) making contributions.

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Originally Posted by keysersoze

Jag and Starter--well done. I'm all for responsible gun ownership and common sense measures. Inasmuch as I believe in the Bill of Rights, lawbreakers should lose theirs.

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:up:

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Originally Posted by nigelred5

I really have no problem agreeing with any of that. I have no problems with all transactions being registered or my background being checked. I do it already any time I buy a firearm through a dealer or a retailer.

MD Firearms Safety Training

In Maryland, we aren't too far from most of those laws as it is. They just need to be ENFORCED. I have no problem with the gun show loopholes being closed. There is no reason a government official couldn't be present at gun shows to run the background checks through the current system for private party sales. FFL's should already be running the purchases, even on long arms. Every shotgun or rifle I've ever purchased was run through the system. Again, I have no problem with that. I have run all of my private sales/transfers through an FFL or the state police anyway. Yeah, it can be a hassle, but law abiding folks shouldn't have a problem with it, and someone that does, well, I don't need or want to sell them any firearms I am linked to. I don't agree with current statutes that sometimes allow convicted violent offenders to regain their rights to ownership, even for hunting. They did it once, they will do it again.

#4 can be problematic but needs to be better defined anyway. I know a person that holds the office of treasurer in a fraternal organization that was drug into a RICO case because an associate member of the club was arrested for a laundry list of crimes. The guy that was arrested is clearly a POS, but also owns a fairly successful and legitimate food distribution company. He is a very active member of the club, but he has a few vices people didn't know about. The treasurer was charged with money laundering because he wrote a series of checks to reimburse the guy for food he provided for the organizations events. The feds are asserting the treasurer should have knowledge as a member of the same fraternal organization that the guy was involved in trug trafficking and prostitution (guy likes coke whores apparently).


*wow, I didn't realize we have a character limit. Had to snip the quote just to post my reply.

Still not one bit of that would satisfy gun opponents who simply want all firearms confiscated.

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As much as I used to be for open gun shows, I've just witnessed too much funny business at the past several shows I've attended to keep that position (the most recent being the weekend before Christmas).

I understand your point about item #4. Actually, several of those concepts would need to be cleaned up and better written. I mean, under those reforms, Brian Moynihan of Bank of America and Stuart Gulliver of HSBC might find themselves in bracelets for allowing money laundering that benefited drug cartels and gun smuggling operations. In addition to my draconian fines, there would also be some heavy jail time for those who *should* have known or who didn't put measures in place to prevent these crimes. One thing I have learned about big business: the top dogs will never allow any sort of (known) funny business if there is a real possibility that it might affect their life and liberty. Isn't it funny that banks were able to trace small denomination money orders ($100 and less) that wound up going to Al Qaeda, but they seem completely oblivious to the hundreds of billions that flow through accounts benefiting drug cartels? But yeah, I understand your concern about getting small, (mostly) innocent fish in the net. I'd hate for that to happen (and I'm not judging your buddy), but another tactic that people in business often rely on when something illegal/improper happens is "plausible deniability". I just wanted to get some ideas out there as quickly as I could.

A little later, I'll try to further verify the data on what percentage of murders is committed by people previously charged and/or convicted of a violent crime or maybe any felony. From several sources, it seems that they do indeed represent a disproportionate contribution to the issue of firearms related violence in the United States. And it makes me very sad that those who talk about this issue as strictly one which involves "assault weapons" and high capacity magazines (not just the people here) will not engage in a discussion on how to address the issue of keeping guns out of the hands of those who are already known to be violent or insane.

BTW, I am actually surprised that the gun owners here were largely OK with several of those conceptual ideas. Starter even added to them. I think he's a secret Soros/Bloomberg fan. We better keep an eye on him from now on! :D

Great contributions, guys! I hope that we now get some comments, modifications and/or additions from our European members.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

So you're not in favour of free speech?

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No In favor of a douchebag of the first order willfully removing himself from our shores and our airwaves. My distaste for him has zero to do with his statements on gun control. The three days during hurricane Sandy that I was without local news and was forced to listen to him and Anderson Cooper on CNN to have an idea of where the storm was going was dreadful.