M-Sport Ford World Rally Teams

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

So you're a professional rally driver and not an armchair expert?

I've been saying all along I was happy to see Suninen being on the pace, meaning the Fiesta can still challenge the other cars.

I still don't think Greensmith will ever challenge anyone.

I think we all here love M-Sport.

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The 'experts' I was talking about dont include you.

Its those who take no account of the position the team find themselves in and also the drivers they can afford and their own pressures too.

I'm just a fan too so I dont slag any team or driver if I dont know the full situation. But with M-Sport there's just no excuse - its common knowledge. Yet still certain people just dont want to understand and prefer to demean and belittle them.

Those same people are those making nasty and abusive comments because they know they have been shown up for what they are.

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Originally Posted by mknight

What is a bit less understandable is how Malcom is seemingly totally convinced they have a top car atm and only miss a driver.

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This is IMHO relatively simple. If they had a top car they would not miss a top driver.

Gerard Quinn @WRCgerardquinn

Message to the "experts" from the voice of success in motorsport.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Es_4mRoX...jpg&name=small

the message i took from this ,is that even M sport lucks the budget,or even is at a danger position economic wise,the car can compete for championships.
Some experts here said plenty of times the opposite= its impossible with luck of money vs toyota/hyundai to compete.
I am confused now...

Suninen has budget & future worries after Monte Carlo crash: :(

https://www.explica.co/suninen-my-ac...ther-question/

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/mikke...o-be-for-2022/

Good to read it was only the money/deal that prevented him from joining MSport in 2021, nothing to do with not liking the team or car.

I think most people on the forum understand the situation, the level of knowledge on this forum is still quite high. In the end it's a financial reality that the team needs pay drivers to fund the season. That's sad and disappointing but it's not MSport's fault in my opinion. Besides this i've seen some very nasty comments on "mainstream" news websites. Those comments are very obtuse and basically assume that MSport chose Greensmith over other drivers mentioned previously. In my opinion the criticism should be directed to WRC itself. Essentially there are only 2 manufacturers interested, we'll see with the new rules...

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Originally Posted by seb_sh

In my opinion the criticism should be directed to WRC itself. Essentially there are only 2 manufacturers interested, we'll see with the new rules...

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Exactly! All these comments, and expert opinions never ask why M-Sport require 'pay drivers' and why we only have 2 proper Manufacturers. And will it be any better with the new rules?

But why hasn't M-Sport managed to secure a big sponsor over all these years?

Not sure there are any big sponsors around since Abu Dhabi & Qatar departed the sport. I suspect the majority of both Hyundai / Toyota's budgets come from the manufacturers themselves.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Suninen has budget & future worries after Monte Carlo crash: :(

https://www.explica.co/suninen-my-ac...ther-question/

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No wonder Millener was pretty angry at Suninen saying, "It really is a great kick in the teeth. The intention was to reach the finish line with both cars and we didn't even get there on one stage. And after everything we've done to be here . Just before we started racing we said this is a long rally (so that he would take it easy)"

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Originally Posted by Franky

But why hasn't M-Sport managed to secure a big sponsor over all these years?

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This is one of the main questions related to WRC. It would be just too easy to say that also F1 has less sponsors now than 10 years ago because all sponsors have gone to formula e. Currently some of circuit racing formats have actually good amount of sponsors and competitors, e.g. prototypes and GTs. Also companies from certain geographical areas could be more keen to provide sponsorship than others. Or how about highlighting the car or race number ownership they have in nascar, could it work in WRC? ;)

I think you omit the main reason - results. The main factor in getting sponsorship deals is offering them success. Without top driver there isn't reasonable success which would attract the sponsors.

MSport did reasonably well in 2017 & 2018 but that didn't manifest in sponsorship to replace Red Bull.

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Originally Posted by M3 Jambo

MSport did reasonably well in 2017 & 2018 but that didn't manifest in sponsorship to replace Red Bull.

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I think it was more of Ogier's personal sponsorship, it went with him from VW to M-Sport and to Citroen, and then dissolved with Toyota.

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Originally Posted by M3 Jambo

MSport did reasonably well in 2017 & 2018 but that didn't manifest in sponsorship to replace Red Bull.

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Yes but the deals don't come themselves. There is a lot of work behind that and a lot of connections and usually things don't just go easy and well. For sure M-Sport can't be in a position of the carmakers but IMHO they had something of a value in hand at that time for the negotiations - now there is little of that left.

The sponsor issue is nothing new.

Most times M-Sport has had a 'big sponsor' on their car it has been connected to a driver (ie. Repsol, Abu Dhabi, Red Bull).

Even when it was just them vs Citroen (and M-Sport won two Manu titles) it was still only Castrol & BP.

But then they had full Ford backing...

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

The sponsor issue is nothing new.

Most times M-Sport has had a 'big sponsor' on their car it has been connected to a driver (ie. Repsol, Abu Dhabi, Red Bull).

Even when it was just them vs Citroen (and M-Sport won two Manu titles) it was still only Castrol & BP.

But then they had full Ford backing...

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Ford have had ample opportunity to fully back M-Sport - I'm sure some of the big bosses were at Monte in 2017, and seemed impressed. But not enough to provide full backing. Nascar and the IMSA/WEC programme took priority.
You have to go back to the days of the original Focus and sponsorship from Martini, and with proper backing from Ford who were willing to pay McRae, then Sainz mega money. Different times back then.

The sport can't pull in anything like that anymore - because it's simply not visible enough. You could also argue it's not too relevant anymore.

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Originally Posted by AndyRAC

The sport can't pull in anything like that anymore - because it's simply not visible enough.

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All-Live is fantastic for the die-hard fans but is any of the live coverage available free-to-air? In the UK we only have the highlights programme on the Monday evening following the event. I realise the coverage costs a lot to produce but if they could at least get the powerstage in front of more eyeballs perhaps it might entice more to take the All-Live product.

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Originally Posted by RS

All-Live is fantastic for the die-hard fans but is any of the live coverage available free-to-air? In the UK we only have the highlights programme on the Monday evening following the event. I realise the coverage costs a lot to produce but if they could at least get the powerstage in front of more eyeballs perhaps it might entice more to take the All-Live product.

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The same company produces both WRC+ All-Live and the TV programmes to each countries. Just need to buy rights from Promoter to show them free-to-air on TV.

From the next event they produce Live TV programmes from 6 stages out of 10.

Does Red Bull TV still show one live stage for free?

"Servus TV" in Austria, in Germany and i think also in Switzerland shows live stages in free-tv or free live stream on their website.
At Monte they had 3 stages and will do it at every round.

https://www.servustv.com/videos/aa-1s5mu79r51w11/

So, lack of visibility and success mentioned as a main reasons for not getting sponsorship. It could be very much so, but would still repeat the earlier comparison to prototype and GT circuit racing, e.g. IMSA or ELMS. European Le Mans Series having over full grids of seemingly well sponsored cars. Have some doubts that e.g. ELMS would have better global or local visibility than WRC. Yet don't know how much per km is the cost of running LMP vs. WRC, but running LMP can't be affordable especially with the amount of crashes they are normally having.

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Originally Posted by AnttiL

Does Red Bull TV still show one live stage for free?

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i don’t know but they didn’t on Monte.

All live runs through discovery+ also. From what i can see the WRC has almost twice as many viewers now than in the early 2000's, add social media views on top of the 800 million+ you can't be far off 1.5 billion. F1 at 1.9 billion tv viewers so maybe it should have been even more.

Circuit racing coverage is probably much cheaper to produce with cameras around a single track showing different race catagories for hours over a weekend.

The UK guys are right - all rallying is almost invisible here to all but the hardcore fans. The average viewer sees very little coverage. Last season Elfyn Evans was fighting for the WDC but I bet 99% of the UK public have ever heard of him.

BTCC is live with all the support races for 8 hours on a Sunday - and all the grids are full of sponsor-backed cars.

If the coverage was there then M-Sport would find the sponsors.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Last season Elfyn Evans was fighting for the WDC but I bet 99% of the UK public have ever heard of him.

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Probably every WRC level rally-driver is more famous in Estonia than his own home-country. Because of media coverage.
(sorry for off-topic)

For Germany the answers is quite simple. We have a divided TV landscape with state owned stations (paid in parts by a monthly fee of ca. 18 Euros from everybody who owns a TV) and private stations.

The state owned stations ARD (and it's local subsidiaries) and ZDF basically only care for German competitors. They i. e. cover Ski Jumping at any place as long as a German is flying as well. When Volkswagen was in the WRC - stupidly without a German driver - they only got coverage for ads in exchange. Even Rallye Deutschland was only covered by the local station in Trier area. To ask for a licence fee is the best way to get ignored completely.

The private stations only cover events when it's a business for them. Meaning, when they have to pay a licence fee of i. e. 100,000 Euros (plus maybe the costs of a team travelling to the event) they need to make at least something more than 100,000 Euros from ads related to this event. Because no outside brand has any interest in WRC, that money has to come from the manufacturers/teams/sponsors involved. Thanks mostly to VW, Sport1 and even RTL for a while broadcasted WRC. Today, none of this three parties seems to be interested in TV coverage in Germany. And believe me, Sport1 really tried.

End of story.

If i was the boss of WRC+/redbull media/whatever they call themselves, i would offer a seasons highlights for free at all the biggest tv-channels in in every country.
Easy to get it back thru wissible sponsorship in the wiew.
Then you have a fundation to sell the next year, and the wiewers want to se it.


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Our latest post, the story of the aero design of the Ford Fiesta WRC in 2016. Hope you like it!

https://www.wrcwings.tech/2021/02/02...rd-fiesta-wrc/

https://www.rallit.fi/brittitallilta...n-kynnyksella/

Millener says they have the first Rally1 chassis ready in a couple of weeks but testing won't start before May or June. Hybrid unit is still missing.

M-SPORT’S 2022 RALLY1 CAR COULD RUN THIS MONTH

https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/m-spo...un-this-month/


DirtFish still believes that 2022 Rally1 car will be based on Ford’s Puma.

Wilson wouldn’t be drawn on it, beyond saying: “You’ll know more when we start testing – I’d be surprised if the car looked too different to the one we’re using now…”

Dirt news says could run February

Millener (post #3440) says May-June

We will see...

Running in Feb, testing (with a full test day on a stage) in May?

Malcolm Wilson interview:
https://youtu.be/juQ1Ko2Fndg

If Hyundai pull out that could be good news for M sport both in terms of drivers availability and desire to drive for a team rather than spend a year on the sidelines, its also one less competitor so potentially better results.
Julian Porter said on a podcast recently he could see Tanak returning to M sport as it was his spiritual home.

Wilson sounds determined and confident of having a strong driver line-up for 2022.

M-Sport's good history with new cars could be a key factor in attracting any of the top driver's, even if Hyundai stays.

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Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC

Malcolm Wilson interview:
https://youtu.be/juQ1Ko2Fndg

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Very good interview. A lot of new information about 22' car's tech side..
- 5-speed gearbox
- back to stick shift(instead of paddleshift)
- will be safest wrc cars ever made

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Originally Posted by TypeR

Very good interview. A lot of new information about 22' car's tech side..
- 5-speed gearbox
- back to stick shift(instead of paddleshift)
- will be safest wrc cars ever made

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None of this was new information

stick shift was news to me, i must have been under the rock then...first time hearing it