People Power

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Originally Posted by ioan

Still you didn't tell us if they passed the standardized test or were intelligent open minded people first of all.
I guess they were intelligent open minded otherwise they wouldn't have come up with revolutionary ideas.
And I doubt that it's reading, writing and basic arithmetic that made people come up with incredible breakthrough ideas.

Who am I kidding though, we all have to learn to live and work in a standardized society that kills differences and above all individuality, to conform to Bob's views. :\

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And which no doubt teaches children only obedient servility towards a certain set of norms.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

It is possible to teach the basics, get them through to the individual, and still allow them to be creative. It seemed to work for me. The two things are hardly mutually exclusive.

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Exactly, but then again you need to be open minded to understand this concept instead of persisting with decades old failed concepts.

Let's face it the percentage of illiterate people is soaring in the ranks of people who went at the kind of school that Chuck and Bob advocate.
Kids are simply not the same they were back when the world didn't offer so much distraction. If we want to keep them interested in 'education' things need to change. We need a system that captivates the young people, where they feel like they are free and can make a difference instead of keeping them afraid of standardized tests.
Bottom line we need to shape a system that rewards individuality.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

And which no doubt teaches children only obedient servility towards a certain set of norms.

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Yes, the one that kills creativity because doing something different is bad, very very bad.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Exactly, but then again you need to be open minded to understand this concept instead of persisting with decades old failed concepts.

Let's face it the percentage of illiterate people is soaring in the ranks of people who went at the kind of school that Chuck and Bob advocate.
Kids are simply not the same they were back when the world didn't offer so much distraction. If we want to keep them interested in 'education' things need to change. We need a system that captivates the young people, where they feel like they are free and can make a difference instead of keeping them afraid of standardized tests.
Bottom line we need to shape a system that rewards individuality.

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While, also, ensuring that kids do get the basics. I believe it is important for certain standards to be upheld, particularly in the speaking and writing of whatever's mother tongue may be. This is an area where, in English at least, things have slipped. But it is perfectly possible to do this and ensure that children are encouraged to each be their own person. I can't understand the mentality of anyone who objects to the development of a sense of individuality. That goes against human nature.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Because there is no solution. If people got off their ar$e and did things for themselves there would be no problems. Oh wait sorry...my bad... they are too busy washing the begging bowl to go out and make something of themselves :s arcastic:

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And don't forget... it's all the fault of the large companies and corporations that most of us support in some way, shape, or form. Those evil people that provide the rest of the world with valuable goods and services cause all the grief due to their greed! :laugh:

I really enjoy the comments about the lack of corporate taxes which make it obvious that the vast majority have no idea how corporate taxation works. But their bottom line claims seem to be that if we tax the corporations more and make them pay their "fair share" then life will be better for all of us. I guess they just don't worry about the tens of thousands the corporations would lay off to remain profitable.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

While, also, ensuring that kids do get the basics. I believe it is important for certain standards to be upheld, particularly in the speaking and writing of whatever's mother tongue may be. This is an area where, in English at least, things have slipped. But it is perfectly possible to do this and ensure that children are encouraged to each be their own person. I can't understand the mentality of anyone who objects to the development of a sense of individuality. That goes against human nature.

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This I can agree with... but I'm failing to see where any children are punished for being individuals in the current learning systems. Though some don't agree, testing of some form is required to gauge the basics of the system.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Luckily you are intelligent, who knows what the world would have become without you.
Maybe next time you learn to read before typing.

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Your point if you have one?
Of course you may have intended to say proofread.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Interesting that you are here lecturing people about the need to know 'the basics', yet here you mis-spell 'arithmetic', quite a simple word to get right.

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You are correct that was a boner and should not have been made; at the same time I do not have a spell checker on this computer, which with the new hard drive- now seems to have acquired the jumping cursor curse another Vaio before it was replacedy this one had.
When I use Word, I triple check my spelling but for these forums, I rarely do so and if the post is not locked, fix it at a later date when I catch one.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Exactly, but then again you need to be open minded to understand this concept instead of persisting with decades old failed concepts.

Let's face it the percentage of illiterate people is soaring in the ranks of people who went at the kind of school that Chuck and Bob advocate.
Kids are simply not the same they were back when the world didn't offer so much distraction.--- What a load of absolute BS ---- If we want to keep them interested in 'education' things need to change. We need a system that captivates the young people, where they feel like they are free and can make a difference instead of keeping them afraid of standardized tests. If they are afraid of the tests, let the little twits wreak in their own stench of stupidity
Bottom line we need to shape a system that rewards individuality.

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Ah such happy talk from the Never Land school of thought.
They are children, children follow adult leads, children lead no one.
As these "individuals" go off and refuse the norms of a society, as taught in grade school, i.e. they prefer to be racist, (oh here is the liberals favorite) homophobe, pedophile, prefer to deficate when and where they prefer your Never Land society will just say, "Oh dear to each his own."
After all they are individuals who do not serve society as a whole, they live to serve themselves and only themselves as they were taught in grade school, there are no standards to live up to.

My oh my what wonderful society. Just a spoonful of sugar....

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Originally Posted by airshifter

And don't forget... it's all the fault of the large companies and corporations that most of us support in some way, shape, or form. Those evil people that provide the rest of the world with valuable goods and services cause all the grief due to their greed! :laugh:

I really enjoy the comments about the lack of corporate taxes which make it obvious that the vast majority have no idea how corporate taxation works. But their bottom line claims seem to be that if we tax the corporations more and make them pay their "fair share" then life will be better for all of us. I guess they just don't worry about the tens of thousands the corporations would lay off to remain profitable.

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I work as an accountant; in my line of work I have helped clients set up many many companies with the express purpose of tax minimisation. Be they Trusts, Companies, Joint Ventures, Limited Partnerships or even instruments like Superannuation Funds, things are set up all the time precisely for this reason.
Money always follows the path of least resistance and taxation law is always at least twenty steps behind, because lawyers will look at existing taxation law and always work out schemes to minimise taxation.

The question of what is "Fair" is always worth asking of society. What's Fair and Just ought to be ideals of any cohesive society.