What Happens Next?

Sandfly, do your homework about the term Indy car.

First of all, the series was known as the PPG Indy Car World Series. The Speedway made a deal with Molson and the Aussies to use the term Indy in their race names. Since Molson no longer has Toronto, it is no longer called the Molson Indy.

When the split occurred, there was a lawsuit involved. One of the resolutions of the lawsuit was that NEITHER CART nor IRL could use the term "Indy Car" for something like five years. After that, it was open only for the IRL to use it and CART worked up using the term "Champ Car."

Nobody "stole" anything. Indy cars run at Indy. Duh.

IndyCool,

Why are you bothering?

Some posters will ignore the facts because it suits their agenda to do so.

Why let the facts get in the way of a good dose of vitriol.

With some posters, your message of reason and objectivity just simply won't be acknowledged.

Sadly, FCR, you have a point.

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

ChaimWitz,

Far be it for me to defend Sanguin and the other Cheerleaders of similar mindset, but I don't think he has any angle.

Sanguin is simply playing Defense for Champ Car to the constant and overwhelming offensive strikes from the pro-IRL posters.

Champ Car is a bit like the Alamo, and Sanguin has decided to load up and bunker down with them.

If Champ Car is in trouble, he is going to defend it to the death all guns blazing!

No matter what you think about him or his posts, there is something admirable about standing up for something that means a lot to you,
don't you think?

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Point taken FlatChatRacer. My apologies to Sanguin for suggesting that he is anything but "just a fan".

As for his choosing to defend ChampCar at the Alamo with all guns blazing to the death. I respectfully beg to differ. There are no bullets in Sanguin's guns. For some reason, he choses to use blanks. When someone stands up for a cause they believe in, I can respect that. But they must make the case for their cause not just irrationally spew falsehoods and spite. To me that is not worthy of respect.

I spent much of my professional life making a case for CART and for ChampCar. Around the time that the Amigos arrived, making a credible and rational case became almost impossible to do with any hint of intellectual honesty. Facts and truth became bothersome to those involved in the mad rush to spool up hate and spin. I had to step back and take stock. The OWRS version of ChampCar was no longer the sport I believed in and the tone and spirit of the Amigo's was not something that I wanted to be associated with.

I hope that those who disagree with me can respect that.

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Originally Posted by indycool

Sandfly, do your homework about the term Indy car.

First of all, the series was known as the PPG Indy Car World Series. The Speedway made a deal with Molson and the Aussies to use the term Indy in their race names. Since Molson no longer has Toronto, it is no longer called the Molson Indy.

When the split occurred, there was a lawsuit involved. One of the resolutions of the lawsuit was that NEITHER CART nor IRL could use the term "Indy Car" for something like five years. After that, it was open only for the IRL to use it and CART worked up using the term "Champ Car."

Nobody "stole" anything. Indy cars run at Indy. Duh.

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It is my understanding, that TG owns the rights to anything "INDY". The Championship Auto Racing Teams, Inc., acquired the rights to use the name "IndyCar" in the CART PPG INdyCar World Series". CART had at least one opportunity to purchase the rights to the name, and did not. They should have. When TG took his bat and went home, and the lease of rights to "IndyCar" expired, he put it on his series.

While I am not suggesting that TG did anything illegal, as in "stole", he did in fact take the good will and image that CART had built with the name IndyCar and put it on his faltering series. This lead to a lot of confusion when the nature of " IndyCar" changed.

I'm not saying that he legally can not, or even that he should not, but the fact that he did take the name IndyCar and use it as if his cars and his series were what people think of as CART IndyCar -- he is trying to fool people and is being deceptive. But what's new.

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Originally Posted by Sandfly

It is my understanding, that TG owns the rights to anything "INDY". The Championship Auto Racing Teams, Inc., acquired the rights to use the name "IndyCar" in the CART PPG INdyCar World Series". CART had at least one opportunity to purchase the rights to the name, and did not. They should have. When TG took his bat and went home, and the lease of rights to "IndyCar" expired, he put it on his series.

While I am not suggesting that TG did anything illegal, as in "stole", he did in fact take the good will and image that CART had built with the name IndyCar and put it on his faltering series. This lead to a lot of confusion when the nature of " IndyCar" changed.

I'm not saying that he legally can not, or even that he should not, but the fact that he did take the name IndyCar and use it as if his cars and his series were what people think of as CART IndyCar -- he is trying to fool people and is being deceptive. But what's new.

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Whatever your understanding, Indycool's post is exactly, 100% accurate and factual. If that is not your understanding, then you need to change your understanding if you want to work with facts.

Don't you think that "IndyCars" should be the cars that run the Indy 500?

Talk about good will, let's confuse the fans even further. Let's call a series full of open wheel cars "IndyCars" then have to explain to casual fans "well, except that these aren't the cars that run at Indy, but do run a bunch of street races that have no resemblance whatsoever to to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Get it?"

Yea. That would be great for the sport, wouldn't it?

This is so easy even a caveman could get it.

IndyCars run the Indy 500.

PPG acquired the Indy name for the PPG Indy Car World Series. It never was the CART PPG Indy Car World Series. When PPG was done, it became the FedEx Championship Series. There was NO CART Indy Car. The Indianapolis 500 was part of the PPG Indy Car World Series.

CART having the right to PURCHASE the name is news to me. Again, it was settled in court before a lawsuit about a number of things was tried before it got to trial in the manner I posted. The five-year prohibition on usage of the term for BOTH sides was agreed on, presumably for particularly that reason of confusion.

As tb just said, Indy cars run at Indy. Duh.

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Originally Posted by Sandfly

he is trying to fool people and is being deceptive.

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Yes, it is shocking that a series that doesn't run in the Indy 500 isn't allowed to use the term 'IndyCar'.

Well, about as shocking as Burger King not been allowed to use the term "Big Mac".

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

IndyCool,

Why are you bothering?

Some posters will ignore the facts because it suits their agenda to do so.

Why let the facts get in the way of a good dose of vitriol.

With some posters, your message of reason and objectivity just simply won't be acknowledged.

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IndyCool bothers because he really believes it is Champcar holding the IRL down.As do all the others that rally behind him.The last thing he would ever want to admit is King Tony is doing an incredibly lousy job.

Then there are the ones who have to post 6000 times that all they want is a unified series and you have a CHAMPCAR forum that is absolutly polluted.

indycool bothers because inaccuracies to bolster the cause of hate to keep CC going are ridiculous. If CC is going to keep going, it isn't going to be because of hatred of Tony George or the IRL, although that seems to fashionable even to some who weren't around for the first split in '79 that PPG put back together, let alone the '96 split that no one has and the '04 continuation of the split in a CART bankruptcy court hearing.