What Happens Next?

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Originally Posted by sanguin

seriously, if that were true about the IRL, wouldn't they be more successful?

These forums are only the tip of the iceberg of the total amount of fans. Just judging from that and the traffic on CC forums + the fans that lurk and fans who attend but don't read forums and the fans that go for the event and the casual fan and the curious fan and the fan with friends ,etc.,these forums a good barometer of what's going on. CC had over 2 million in attendance last year. If you want to refute it, put up some links and numbers ,not just you're opinion.

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What, so you can ignore them, just like you ignored my list of sponsors I put up a couple of days ago? Or like you just ignored the numbers showing the eyeball count on the IRL website versus the eyeball count at the ChampCar website? You have NO way, I repeat NO FREAKIN' WAY, to determine unique eyeball counts across the various forums. Therefore there is no way to use any such numbers to gauge anything. The eyeball count for the websites CAN however be quantified.

What is it that you are selling again? Remind me. Oh that's right I forgot, its another load of ...

Gary

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Originally Posted by sanguin

CC had over 2 million in attendance last year.

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Please put a breakdown of this 2 million? I asked you before but never got a reply.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

If you want to refute it, put up some links and numbers ,not just you're opinion.

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But we're still waiting for your links and numbers to back up your statement.

No proof to back up your statements = no point.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

CC has the fans.

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Why can't it get sponsors and better TV coverage then?

Why is it, with all these millions of ChampCar fans, the TV channels aren't throwing money in the direction of the Three Amigos?

If ChampCar has millions of fans, how is it that both Formula One & Nascar have lots of sponsors and mega-bucks TV deals because of their fan-base but ChampCar doesn't?

How come, if ChampCar has such a big fan-base, does Eurosport let every other sporting event take precedence?

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Originally Posted by garyshell

What, so you can ignore them, just like you ignored my list of sponsors I put up a couple of days ago? Or like you just ignored the numbers showing the eyeball count on the IRL website versus the eyeball count at the ChampCar website? You have NO way, I repeat NO FREAKIN' WAY, to determine unique eyeball counts across the various forums. Therefore there is no way to use any such numbers to gauge anything. The eyeball count for the websites CAN however be quantified.

What is it that you are selling again? Remind me. Oh that's right I forgot, its another load of ...

Gary

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http://traffic.alexa.com/graph?c=1&f...=3&h=300&w=610

This is a strong estimate.

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Originally Posted by garyshell

What, so you can ignore them, just like you ignored my list of sponsors I put up a couple of days ago?

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Gary, I think this is a very important point that a couple of folks like Sandfly and others should start to see.

Some of us have made careers, it seems, of giving sanguin the linked, accepted proof he has requested. His response is to refute with things he admts are just his opinions, or, more often, to simply never respond at all. He'll wait a few days, and then pick up on the conversation with more of his speculation, ignoring that you gave him the proof he requested in the first place.

All the time, of course, injecting slams against the IRL, whether it was part of the conversation at the time or not, then justifying it because "everyone does it."

I know I am done providing sanquin links or proof. He ignores that proof when I do, and he NEVER responds with any proof of his own. It is simple a waste of my time.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Why can't it get sponsors and better TV coverage then?

Why is it, with all these millions of ChampCar fans, the TV channels aren't throwing money in the direction of the Three Amigos?

If ChampCar has millions of fans, how is it that both Formula One & Nascar have lots of sponsors and mega-bucks TV deals because of their fan-base but ChampCar doesn't?

How come, if ChampCar has such a big fan-base, does Eurosport let every other sporting event take precedence?

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Well, for one thing, The Amigos are clueless about marketing. They don't come out with a schedule for the following year until very late, sometimes not until a couple of months before the first race, so no one knows where or when the events will be until after a sponsor has made all his buys. CCWS has had a bad habit of promoting races they don't even have etched in stone yet, like their Asian events. They are also terrible about making driver announcements with a enough lead time so a team can do some marketing with said dirver and try to find some funding. In addition to that, most of the Champ Car owners change drivers so often (even in season, like Mexico last year), there is no chance for the fans (and potential customers) to develop loyalties to the competitors; not to mention having so few Americans in the field. The TV package is lousy, since most of the events this year aren't live; some are just 1 hour highlight shows on ABC/ESPN, which is no way to keep an already dwindling audience. And their promotion of their events, if reports from Champ Car fans on this forum from around the country are accurate, is almost non-existent. Not a whole lot of sponsors would take a chance on spending hard cash on a series that doesn't seem organized well enough to find a sharpened pencil in a cup.

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Originally Posted by tamburello

Why can't it get sponsors and better TV coverage then?

Why is it, with all these millions of ChampCar fans, the TV channels aren't throwing money in the direction of the Three Amigos?

If ChampCar has millions of fans, how is it that both Formula One & Nascar have lots of sponsors and mega-bucks TV deals because of their fan-base but ChampCar doesn't?

How come, if ChampCar has such a big fan-base, does Eurosport let every other sporting event take precedence?

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You know the answer to that!!! You guys tell us every day. It is the speedway - the name IndyCar.. Well guess what - it is the CC product that built the CART fanbase using the Name IndyCar. When TG took it back--- he essentially stole the name and tried to apply it to his vision. IT DOES NOT WORK -- People expected to see the CART IndyCar and instead get IRL Indycars and tune out. THAT has hurt the sport. There have been many attempts in the past to have reasonable discusions with TG and it has been made clear that he will demand control. That is not going to happen. So we continue with two seperate series on seperate paths. The IRL will likely continue to morph into what CC is today. Even with Tony Cotman, it is still controlled by a misguided vision that fails to grasp the full spectrum of open wheel racing.

IRL is simply not the answer. Maybe CC is not either but at least they have fans for the series not just one race.

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Originally Posted by sanguin

a new car, new events, revived Atlantics with the winner going to CC, tv contract,new teams,an engine manufacturer,that's quite an accomplishment in 4 years. Much more than the IRL has done in 12.

If a promoter doesn't put on a race, it doesn't take away anything from what the series has already achieved. Things need to be done ,absolutely.But its not the end of the world,or the IRL would fold without Michigan too. Maybe I'm not understanding that one race that never happened is outweighing all the good racing I saw this season.

See you in 2008.

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Well my dear Sanguin, let's take a drink from the reality fountain:

The new Atlantic Car was created by Swift in an amazingly short period and I understand that they took all the risk on the project and the teams paid for the cars--not ChampCar. Ditto for Panoz but I do hear that the Amigos paid for many of those cars in the end since the teams did not have the budget for them. Ooooops! Smooth move Amigos.

As for the "two million dollar" Atlantic champion's prize, that was indeed so in 2006 but we now know it was not as a cash prize. It was apparently a combination of cash, equipment and services that would have needed to be given to someone in subsidies anyhow so I will call it a wash. We won't discuss 2007 out of respect for the dying.

Then there is your comment about the "new events". Huh? Excuse me, Did you pay any attention at all to the past four years? Are you really that delusional? I guess we all know the answer to that question.

The "TV Contract" is a time buy and a crappy one at that. Whoo Hooooo. If you had a big enough checkbook, you could have had a "TV Contract" just like it. Big deal.

The Mazda relationship is a win but I know for a fact that it is not big money and I also hear that it wasn't ChampCar who attracted the opportunity.

You somehow failed to mention the hit parade of epic disasters and missteps that have dogged the Ego Amigos since the beginning. I wonder why? Perhaps doing so would have exceeded the word count of the allowable post size on the forum.

Your elitist attitude is laughable given the reality of ChampCar's circumstance. The OWRS bunch is smelling like seriously burnt toast. Most people can see (and smell) that and I am sure you can too but won't admit it. I just wonder what your angle is in this. For some reason, I doubt it is sincere fan enthusiasm.

So Sanguin, what happens next? How are the Amigos going to lead you and the blind faithful to the promised land in Zolder, Jerez and Assen? While you are at it, please do get back to us and let us know how ChampCar makes sense as a business. We are still waiting with baited breath for you to enlighten us. I suspect it is all just basic egonomics.

And I know, tt is all about the racing and the racing is good. Oakey dokey.

ChaimWitz,

Far be it for me to defend Sanguin and the other Cheerleaders of similar mindset, but I don't think he has any angle.

Sanguin is simply playing Defense for Champ Car to the constant and overwhelming offensive strikes from the pro-IRL posters.

Champ Car is a bit like the Alamo, and Sanguin has decided to load up and bunker down with them.

If Champ Car is in trouble, he is going to defend it to the death all guns blazing!

No matter what you think about him or his posts, there is something admirable about standing up for something that means a lot to you,
don't you think?