People Power

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Is this before they can read, write and do advanced math skills?

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yes, it's right from the beginning, they can learn to read, write and basic maths while they develop their strengths.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Because humans are imperfect beings. We will never be able to solve every problem in every situation. To think otherwise is naive and foolish.

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Again the defeatist attitude that you were accusing me of.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Things can't be better and cheaper? Wow I guess I should have kept my 286 computer that cost me $2500 or whatever it was from 1989.

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That's called evolution, and it's due to people using their brains, it has little to do with the free market.
Or do you believe that Benz did invent the automobile because he wanted to make better profit against coaches?!
What about the phone?
What about electricity?
What about the laws of physics? Are these a result of the free market? No they are not. They are the result of the knowledge thirst of bright people, something the corporations do not like unless said bright people work for them and make them rich.

I say give people the means and the power to be creative and to share their knowledge in an equitable way. Forget about corporations, they the brake of our society.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

Oh you must come from the everybody gets a trophy school of thought. Little Johnny can't add or subtract because he's too "creative" for that. Sorry but there aren't really any creative ways to read, or write with proper grammar, or add/subtract/etc. But yeah, let's let the kids be creative about things instead of teaching them what they need to know. That's what the public schools in this country have been doing for 30+ years, gotten us far hasn't it? There is a time and place for creativity, but that time is AFTER kids have learned the basics. We don't teach the basics in this country anymore, and I for one would like to get back to that.

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The basics are not going to get you new ideas, they will mostly set the boundaries for most of the people's lives.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

42 pages later, and this discussion/debate/issue seems about as organized as most of the OWS protests. Quite a bit of it is nothing short of comical with various people contradicting themselves page after page, switching their views, disallowing others to use the same reasonings they are using, etc, etc.

I've still yet to see any answers to this IMO delusion of greater equality. If people really want greater equality, then we all wouldn't be posting on this thread. The average wage worldwide is still less that $10,000 US dollars the last time I looked. Time to start spreading the wealth for those that seek equality.

Others claim it's not about money or material things. Take that money that you don't need and and use it to work on the issues you feel important... peace, security, education, whatever those issues might be. After all, who needs money?

Fair taxes and rights with no government? Who collects those taxes or makes sure rights are enforced and fair?


Much like Chuck I've seen a lot of talk and no real solutions. The overall productivity of this thread could easily be compared to the UN.

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Talk about taking things out of context without reading attentively. :rolleyes:

For example, who said we should have Fair taxes and rights with no government?

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I disagree, as I did it 8 years ago, which is less than a decade ago. A friend of mine also put everything he had on the line a few years ago.

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Are you the CEO of one of the corporations that are pushing things their way?
I'm not sure we are talking about the same things and I do now understand why you are so committed to contradict us. Well I am not against the small to mid size business who are doing things as fair as they can, I am against corporations who influence the politics at state and global level.
In fact IMO one change that would help is to go back to a system where most people can have their own business and conduct it in a responsible way.

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Originally Posted by race aficionado

That's precisely the point of the people's uprising - we don't like the current system that has been put in place - the same way your black brothers of South Africa revolted and changed the system that was in place because they were tired of sinking in it, they didn't want to "adapt" to the system's injustices and also, they could not afford to buy a boat.



Do you know their ideals?
Occupy Wall Street may not have a formal list of demands, but anyone who’s been paying attention understands the core problems that occupiers are protesting–that corporations have far too much power in our political system, that Wall Street banks crashed our economy but were never held accountable, and that the richest 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans–156 million people–combined.

And some say, "so what? get a job you lazy bums" - They say occupiers should stop protesting and just get a job.

The fact is that anybody who’s looked for a job in the last few years knows, there just aren’t jobs out there. That’s a big part of why occupiers are protesting. In September, there were four times as many unemployed people as job openings. And for those who are lucky enough to find a job, median wages today are lower than they were a decade ago.

Another myth is that the biggest crisis facing our country (USA) is out of control government spending.
The two biggest drivers of our deficit–by far–are the economic crash and the Bush tax cuts. We have millions of people out of work, corporations hoarding cash, and factories sitting idle. If we put all those people back to work–rebuilding infrastructure, educating our children, and researching new technologies–it’ll shrink the deficit and make our economy stronger for the long haul. And we can easily afford it if we make sure the rich–who are taking home a larger percentage of income than any time since 1917–pay their fair share.



Getting rid of apartheid (this being one of many injustices that have been defeated throughout our history) was a pipe dream for many and look at the reality now.

source:
Top 5 FOX Myths To Debunk This Thanksgiving | MoveOn.Org

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:up:

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Originally Posted by ioan

That's called evolution, and it's due to people using their brains, it has little to do with the free market.
Or do you believe that Benz did invent the automobile because he wanted to make better profit against coaches?!
What about the phone?
What about electricity?
What about the laws of physics? Are these a result of the free market? No they are not. They are the result of the knowledge thirst of bright people, something the corporations do not like unless said bright people work for them and make them rich.

I say give people the means and the power to be creative and to share their knowledge in an equitable way. Forget about corporations, they the brake of our society.

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What do you suppose Newton learned in school? How about Edison? Bell? The Wright Brothers? On and on. Did they learn math, science, and grammar, or did they learn "creativity"

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Originally Posted by race aficionado

Another myth is that the biggest crisis facing our country (USA) is out of control government spending.
The two biggest drivers of our deficit–by far–are the economic crash and the Bush tax cuts. We have millions of people out of work, corporations hoarding cash, and factories sitting idle. If we put all those people back to work–rebuilding infrastructure, educating our children, and researching new technologies–it’ll shrink the deficit and make our economy stronger for the long haul.]

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You do realize that revenues to the Federal government went UP after the '03 tax cuts. Also earlier I posted the statistics that show that you would have to tax those making over $250,000 a year (Obama's rich) at a rate where thy would have to pay something like $600,000 a year just to ballance the books. How do you propose they do this? And who do you propose will pick up the tab to just magically restart these factories? Or who will pay for all this research you propose?

And someone needs to explain to me how this deficit issue is a revenue problem. In 1999, when the budget was "balanced", we took in MUCH less revenue. So what would be wrong with cutting government spending to 99 levels, inflation adjusted?

You have some lofty ideals, I'll give you that, but you just aren't grounded in any sort of financial reality.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

What do you suppose Newton learned in school? How about Edison? Bell? The Wright Brothers? On and on. Did they learn math, science, and grammar, or did they learn "creativity"

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Not sure. maybe you have clear description of what they used to do in the school. Did they pass their standardized test with brio?