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Um sorry no you are wrong. Perhaps it is simply because you do not know US political history. The Federalists, Democrat-Republicans, and the Whigs were all once dominant parties in our politics. Therfore they illustrate my point quite nicely, if you do not provide a product (political idea in this case) that enough people want to buy (vote for) then you go bankrupt (vanish from the political scene).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rollo
42 pages later, and this discussion/debate/issue seems about as organized as most of the OWS protests. Quite a bit of it is nothing short of comical with various people contradicting themselves page after page, switching their views, disallowing others to use the same reasonings they are using, etc, etc.
I've still yet to see any answers to this IMO delusion of greater equality. If people really want greater equality, then we all wouldn't be posting on this thread. The average wage worldwide is still less that $10,000 US dollars the last time I looked. Time to start spreading the wealth for those that seek equality.
Others claim it's not about money or material things. Take that money that you don't need and and use it to work on the issues you feel important... peace, security, education, whatever those issues might be. After all, who needs money?
Fair taxes and rights with no government? Who collects those taxes or makes sure rights are enforced and fair?
Much like Chuck I've seen a lot of talk and no real solutions. The overall productivity of this thread could easily be compared to the UN.
I know exactly where you want to go with this. I was only 18 in 1994 when our democratic government was elected. I did not understand what Apartheid was as I was a child during its reign. I never voted to oppress anyone. I am now paying the dues for my father and his fathers mistakes. This side of our debate is over :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
I disagree, as I did it 8 years ago, which is less than a decade ago. A friend of mine also put everything he had on the line a few years ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
You and I are on the same wave length :)Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
Education at school is designed to teach basic skills such as reading, writing, common sense, self discipline etc etc to prepare youngsters for the world when you become an adult. It serves no other purpose at all. You can flunk every test at school yet become a success, but being able to read and write and disciplined does help get that success ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
Because there is no solution. If people got off their ar$e and did things for themselves there would be no problems. Oh wait sorry...my bad... they are too busy washing the begging bowl to go out and make something of themselves :s arcastic:Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Either there are no problems that need solutions or there is a problem :crazy: :pQuote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
I think it was Chuck who made comparisons between the TEA Party & the Occupy movement so it was interesting to read this:
New York Times financial writer Joe Nocera critiques Occupy movement | GazetteNETQuote:
"If we lived in a country that had a growing economy and where the middle class felt that they could make a good living and had a chance for advancement and a decent life, there would be no tea party or Occupy Wall Street."
Obviously this is talking about the situation in the US, but these are issues which are not confined to one country. A solution suggested in the article makes sense to me:
How exactly people shift the emphasis of such a well engrained, self-interested monolith will be quite a challenge, but Occupy have made a start by getting off their arses and doing something, even if it's only raising awareness of the issues.Quote:
Create a political movement that brings Wall Street back to being part of the economy that has some social utility instead of being part of the economy that's based on lining your own pockets.
I would argue that the regulators and Washington need to figure out a way to diminish the importance of lobbyists and the power of money in Washington, which is just overwhelming. Those are three things that are right off the top of my head that seem like they desperately need to be done.
It's really a simple thing. There is a system that has been put in place and people either sink in it or they adapt to it and buy a boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
I also disagree with Occupy's ideals. They are pipe dreams :(
That's precisely the point of the people's uprising - we don't like the current system that has been put in place - the same way your black brothers of South Africa revolted and changed the system that was in place because they were tired of sinking in it, they didn't want to "adapt" to the system's injustices and also, they could not afford to buy a boat.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Do you know their ideals?Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Occupy Wall Street may not have a formal list of demands, but anyone who’s been paying attention understands the core problems that occupiers are protesting–that corporations have far too much power in our political system, that Wall Street banks crashed our economy but were never held accountable, and that the richest 400 Americans have more wealth than half of all Americans–156 million people–combined.
And some say, "so what? get a job you lazy bums" - They say occupiers should stop protesting and just get a job.
The fact is that anybody who’s looked for a job in the last few years knows, there just aren’t jobs out there. That’s a big part of why occupiers are protesting. In September, there were four times as many unemployed people as job openings. And for those who are lucky enough to find a job, median wages today are lower than they were a decade ago.
Another myth is that the biggest crisis facing our country (USA) is out of control government spending.
The two biggest drivers of our deficit–by far–are the economic crash and the Bush tax cuts. We have millions of people out of work, corporations hoarding cash, and factories sitting idle. If we put all those people back to work–rebuilding infrastructure, educating our children, and researching new technologies–it’ll shrink the deficit and make our economy stronger for the long haul. And we can easily afford it if we make sure the rich–who are taking home a larger percentage of income than any time since 1917–pay their fair share.
Getting rid of apartheid (this being one of many injustices that have been defeated throughout our history) was a pipe dream for many and look at the reality now.Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
source:
Top 5 FOX Myths To Debunk This Thanksgiving | MoveOn.Org