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Hit the nail right on the head , why don't ya ?Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
The fools thought Max couldn't turn this around . It turns out he's big enough to defend himself .
I think that there indeed has been damage done to the FIA , F1 and all of motorsport .
The damage , though , was done by those conspiring to sting Max , not by Max , himself . That they would stoop to such levels , shows the corrupt morals of the "elite" paddock club .
Knock , without the second part of the quote , I would agree .Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
But , as it reads to me , a perfect paraphasing of it would be "I hope he stays , but I don't think I could if I were him ." .
Stirling Moss is not an 'elder statesman'....he is just a retired driver. A statesman has some power and influence to wield, which Stirling doesn't. No ex-F1 driver outside the FIA does.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
Too many times the British motorsport journalists hang on the words of yesteryears personalities as if they alone have insight and wisdom and, sadly, far too many British motorsport fans repeat parrot-fashion as if it is gospel.
Moss is entitled to his view, and I can understand why people have that view, but their opinions do not alter the facts of the matter, the fact of the matter being that in real terms there is no difference to the FIA in its day-to-day operations.
Personally I find the whole trial bit to be 98% boring with much stupdity tossed to add spice. I thought we would hear who told on him, how it all got started, was that really Ron D. putting the camera in the bra or what?
And then the cross exam attacking max for being a crook running off with three hundred million, costing the FIA billions loading up his pockets, and so forth as attacking his credibility as a witness, but NO not one word of that.
Instead, it is "I wuz no nazi" and the response being "you wuz too (a nazi)"
The remaining 2% does show the rubber like nature of max and others similar such as bernie, to think they can just act like all this is nothing, no big deal, a little role play, topped off with some sex, 5k plus for the ladies, 37k plus for the apartment, thermoteers up the yang, and then there is this "theater" thing where one of the prostitutes (I would use the w word but why offend) causally mentioned regular orgies involving 30 men and ten women that was apprently some sort of business investment enterprize for Max, and so on.
No big deal.....and they just continue on..... :rolleyes:
What I find odd is how Max easily and clearly he portrayed it as no big deal, something of a hobby, much like some play golf or enjoy a good book, with the only outrage that the paper portrayed it as being Nazi related, (very "unerotic" as he put it) instead of what it really was: Max and his collection of girls playing dress up and slapping butts until they bleed, and so on, just something that brings him and others like him, a great deal of pleasure.
Well it seems that the real outrage voiced by Max is the slander "me as a nazi" aspect, but since slander has not been plead, there should be no damages for that alleged falsehood.
And if the other stuff is just fun and games of the usual nature for those special lovers of S and M, as Max has been quoted as portraying it to be, under oath, then where are his damages? Those damages would seem to be nothing.
Since Max claims to be enjoying humiliation, beatings and all that S & M stuff, then the humiliation from the tape/photos being made public that others might find painful and embarrassing to the "mainstream"** among us, should be very pleasurable for him. Afer all, this would seem to be the ultimate humiliation, to be stripped naked and beaten not merely in front of a bunch of hookers, but the whole world!!
What could someone truly into S & M want and enjoy more than that?
Maybe max was the one that secretly blew the whistle on himself? In any event, the whole thing seems to be much ado about nothing, except to heap some more embarrassment upon the world of F1.....and just how now, is Max to sit in judgment of others who are alleged to have brought the sport into disrepute, given his own open, public testimony?
Again there was a time when old paranoid conspiracy nut case markabilly thought he could out do the FIA, maX and crew in coming up with such bizzare stuff, but if a year ago, I told you that this sequence of events would happen within a year, all of you would have laughed your heads off at anyone so stupid as suggest this possibily could ever come about.....truth stranger than fiction......
**AS bagwan put it: "a perfect paraphasing of it would be "I hope he stays , but I don't think I could if I were him ." ., yeah but folks like max and other politicans have no problem with it
So you say, but that's irrelevant. The reason I don't claim that that makes your argument immeasurably weaker than mine is because I'm happy for you to hold whatever opinion you wish. No-one has exclusive rights to the absolute truth, but we all have the right to an opinion, and exchanging opinions form a discussion. Childish, petty put-downs don't make for a discussion. They're sometimes entertaining but their main purpose is to disrupt and prevent reasonable discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
Your claims of no damage in certain areas are true. Sponsors haven't walked away, and races haven't been cancelled as a direct result. But that does not mean everything in the garden is rosy. Far from it. This discussion would not exist if it was, and there are many good reasons why the thread title is appropriate.
Max Mosley, in damaging his own reputation (which you acknowledge he has done), has damaged the organisation and sport he represents simply because Max = F1 in the eyes of many. Once the story was made public Max's private life became very much a part of his public life. Those two parts of his life were very different matters, but they are not any more.
Perhaps the few (I refer to the thread poll) who think Max should stay do so because they object to the idea that a rag like the NOTW should invade someone's private life, and in doing so affect their public life as a result. That is an entirely different debate.
It is and it isn't .Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
In the end , it's about which aspect trumps the other .
Are the wierd Chelsea apartment transgressions more vile than the thought of someone catching something else on film ?
Is a dominatrix worse than a peeping Tom or a stinger ?
Is getting rid of Max worth condoning the invasion of his privacy ?
$300,000 is enough to hire a detective or perhaps a herd of them to find the creepy , seemy underbelly of the "elite" .
So , who's up for ousting Max , then ?
Back to business ; nothing to see here ; move along .
Best tell your buddy that....Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
As for the notion that Mosley = F1 in the eyes of 'many'....well, if you want to judge only by the lowest common denominator of those with a sub-normal low IQ who can't see the wood for the trees, feel free, but once again it doesn't improve your argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by Knock-on
The 'many' of which you speak is a totally unqualified statement. Please show proof that there are 'many' who have expressed this notion. The correct wording should have been 'some', but once again the detailed facts are something that you don't like to use.
Only ADAC have taken anything remotely like an action in relation to the workings of the FIA. For all the bluster, no other organisation has taken anyaction. Therefore, there has been no noticeable damage.
You seem to think that some embarassing headlines equate to damage. As is continually high-lighted to you, this is palpably not the case.
And I could understand why many would feel that way, as I had a big discomfort with that smelly mess known as the NOTW.......but then max files suit and then gives his bizzare version of his view of his behavior---"I fundamentally disagree that any of this is depraved," (okay, so cheating on your family for years, getting off and on having one's butt spanked, humiliatied, and so forth is erotic but not depraved but dressing up as a nazi is "unerotic"?) and his lawyer says "Most people think spanking, whipping, role play and bondage is harmless and even funny," and as to the people who I would guess (since they have said nothing), his family who are not into humiliation as a form of sexual turn-on (i guess), all max can say on the witness stand isQuote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
"do nothing except suffer the consequences for something they have no responsibility for"
Now it sems certain fans of Ferrari seem duty bound to defend Max, and dismiss Max's behavior---especially his very public behavior in his actions in taking the stand and saying what he and his whores have said....this court case behavior strikes me as far more damaging to the sport and to him, then some mere photos with max being caught with his pants down---
If max has no problem being a clear liar and cheater to his family (and he could not have done it for this long without being an outright liar), and when caught, that is all he can say that..........then everyone involved in motorsports should know such a man has no honor, and if he would steal from his family, then he would steal even more willingly from business associates and would lie without hesitancy.
If not before, then it certainly should be now.Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
The fact that it appears to not be the case, after Max takes it upon himself to sprew along with his paid prostitutes, in open court, says something very arrogant and unpleasant about the sport, FIA and all the rest. :down:
OTOH, If Max loses his job at the FIA, he could always pimp for a living: He also has an ‘interest' in "events shows" organized by Woman A near Euston, where, as my Telegraph colleague described it "up to 30 men pay around £200 to have sex with ten women in a stage-like setting."
Woman A said: "We describe it as like going to the theatre." Then letting loose a detail that I believe could be fatal for Max she added that Mr Mosley had a financial stake in the events and would telephone her three days beforehand to ask "how are the finances looking?"
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/kevin_g..._the_euston_40
So the coverage enhances the respect and admiration for the FIA President, the FIA and for F1 does it? It portrays the sport and all the associated sponsors and manufacturers in a good light? It is good for the sport?Quote:
Originally Posted by tamburello
And where have I said that it has enhanced anything? Where have I claimed it is good for the sport?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
I have merely claimed that the sport is undamaged. Not once have I claimed that the sport is enhanced.
It was you who made the claim that the sport had been affected.
I see we are back to your usual tactic....when your original argument is systematically destroyed by your opponent, you just invent another argument. Typical.
Perhaps, like Mclaren, you would be best accepting the case is lost and that you would do best to settle out of court?