What Happens Next?

Jacques,

How has the IRL been badly mismanaged? Mistakes yes, changes in direction yes, but what have they badly mismanaged?

I would just like to know what it is. In fact, one could argue that they have been very well managed, considering they have lasted for over 13 years. The first 7 years of it's existence was competing against an arguably more powerful series in CART. Then CART died. CART was mismanaged.

Looking at things from a purely empirical point of view, the IRL has managed very well thus far. The IRL business model is superior to the Champ Car model. Anyone taking a look from the outside, would have to see that. Champ Car is simply in a far worse state than the IRL.

I hope CCWS survives it's most challenging period since early 2004. If only for the sake of hard working folks job security. Whilst I am convinced that a unified series is the way forward, any coming together of the IRL and CCWS has to be done with CCWS having some serious bargaining chips. Otherwise, we are looking at capitulation, rather than merger.

Now, does CCWS have some serious bargaining chips. In my opinion yes. Cosworth/PI, the DP01 with oval upgrade, ownership of Long Beach, Toronto and Mexico City.

If, what Indycool says is true and $100M was requested for everything over 10yrs then the CCWS is short sighted and not seeing the wood for the trees.
This is not about getting money back in the short term.

Once you have a combined schedule and are paid a sanction fee, your ability to negotiate and apply pressure from within increases. By bringing the most valuable CCWS assets into the IRL fold, the "Amigos" gain a share of the power in the IRL, even though it is not that obvious.

1. Negotiate a contract that has Cosworth supplying free or nearly free engines to certain teams on an equivalency formula with Honda. That means
teams become dependent on Cosworth.
2. By including 3 owned races that now get a sanctioning fee, you promote the hell out of them and build their worth within the IRL. Again build your power base slowly but surely.
3. By supplying a free DP01 with oval upgrade you make yourself very important to the infrastructure.

4. Do NOT demand any money for anything else. Don't worry, there will be
opportunities to make money in the future without making direct demands of Tony George.

This is what puzzles me about the "Amigos". They don't seem to be able to look at the long term and see the benefits of joining forces with the IRL.

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

CART was mismanaged.

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I'm pretty sure CART was assassinated and plundered leaving Jerry Forsythe holding the bag.

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

Once you have a combined schedule and are paid a sanction fee, your ability to negotiate and apply pressure from within increases. By bringing the most valuable CCWS assets into the IRL fold, the "Amigos" gain a share of the power in the IRL, even though it is not that obvious.

1. Negotiate a contract that has Cosworth supplying free or nearly free engines to certain teams on an equivalency formula with Honda. That means
teams become dependent on Cosworth.
2. By including 3 owned races that now get a sanctioning fee, you promote the hell out of them and build their worth within the IRL. Again build your power base slowly but surely.
3. By supplying a free DP01 with oval upgrade you make yourself very important to the infrastructure.

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Huh?! I thought I cleared this up. The series does not pay the races a sanctioning fee, the races pay the series a sanctioning fee to show up.

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

This is what puzzles me about the "Amigos". They don't seem to be able to look at the long term and see the benefits of joining forces with the IRL.

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It's because Gerry has lost so much money. He's got to be thinking something like "If I can't get back the money I paid into it ... I'm going to keep it." that's the only thing I can think of. PG and DP probably don't care about going to Indy. After all the strip clubs are better in Houston then Indy.

nanders, races like Portland and the track rentals are NOT paying sanction fees as would be the norm. CC owns the races. If it pays itself, it's out of one pocket and into the other.

As for Forsythe, he needs to make a decision about when he throws good money after bad.

And CART was not "assassinated and plundered" and Forsythe was NOT left holding the bag. CART, as a public-owned company, went bankrupt. Forsythe was its largest stockholder and probably lost the most money. Indeed, as bankruptcies go, a LOT of people lost money.

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Originally Posted by indycool

nanders, races like Portland and the track rentals are NOT paying sanction fees as would be the norm. CC owns the races. If it pays itself, it's out of one pocket and into the other.

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Let me restate it then. Promoters pay the sanctioning fee. If the aforementioned races appear on the ICS schedule they will most likely be paying a sanctioning fee to the ICS.

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Originally Posted by indycool

As for Forsythe, he needs to make a decision about when he throws good money after bad.

And CART was not "assassinated and plundered" and Forsythe was NOT left holding the bag. CART, as a public-owned company, went bankrupt. Forsythe was its largest stockholder and probably lost the most money. Indeed, as bankruptcies go, a LOT of people lost money.

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Didn't they bleed the money out of CART and wasn't that what Vannini was so upset about? Who got the money? They burnt up more money in the last 6 months then the CCWS now wants to buy the whole thing, which me thinks represents the approximate amount they have put in.

I'm sticking with "assassinated and plundered."

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Originally Posted by FlatChatRacer

However, I have too much respect for my fellow posters to try and coerce a response from them. It's not fair and your post was a little aggressive. Chaimwitz and Heelntoe don't come onto the forum to grandstand and showoff. If you read there posts, you can detect a hint of exasperation with the current situation that Champ Car is in.

Anyway, don't be too hard on them.

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Yes it probably was a bit aggressive. HeelInToe and I had an off line conversation and it's all good. <grin> (And I extend the same olive branch to Chaimwitz.)

I wasn't trying to coerce a response. My point was and still is, if you can't or won't talk about it, don't mention it at all. We are all exasperated. But hinting that you know something but won't tell, only increases that exasperation.

Gary

Well, nanders, in that case, you're right.....Pook spent $90 million to blow it up and The Amigos got it for $3.2 million off the courthouse steps.

Yes, that was what Vannini was upset about.....it appeared, and was hotly discussed on the fora at the time, that there was some manipulative "home cookin'" to get the CART assets into The Amigos' hands.

They might want that kind of money, but what is the VALUE? What VALUE does it have now compared to when they spent $3.2 million for it four years ago? Obviously, there will be differences of opinion on those questions.

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Originally Posted by indycool

nanders, races like Portland and the track rentals are NOT paying sanction fees as would be the norm. CC owns the races. If it pays itself, it's out of one pocket and into the other.

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How do you know that?

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Originally Posted by Jacques

WELL SAID !!!
Finally, someone with some reason.
It is so annoying reading all these posts from people who have been wrong time and time again. People who believe that their way is the only way. People who think that everyone else must like the type of racing they like.
People who see all the mess the IRL is in and, then, look the other way.

If they are so annoyed with CC, and want it to fold, why do they continue posting here every day ? If they like the IRL so much better, then, move over.

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Because this is the CC bashing forum? welcome.

I've heard there is some good news coming down the pike,but I'll wait until it happens. ;)

THEY - cannot stand that CC has and is building a fan base, and has a series that people watch and are interested in. Just look at the forum list when you log on - there are alway at least ten times as many users here. Why is that?? It is not just the 14 IRL regulars that are here bashing CC -- it is CC fans.

Why can't they be happy to talk about how wonderful the IRL is over at the IRL forum, and leave the CC folks alone.