[WRC] News & rumours (part III)

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Originally Posted by Martins Tolks

Sardinia maybe?

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Sardinia already has contract for 2016 though...but might very well be in danger for 2017 as the promoter want's to get rid of the island-based events for logistical reasons.

Therefore I strongly believe the event that will be dropped from the 3 currently without a guaranteed place in the calendar (Portugal, Germany, Corsica) will be Tour de Corse. Firstly, it wasn't even supposed to be in WRC for 2015, secondly it is an island-based event and thirdly it has no guaranteed financing in place for the future. Also the rumored October date for the China Rally would fit right in the current slot of Corsica.

The 2016 contracts don't count too much.
It's just an agreement with the promoter but it is not confirmed officialy by the FIA. So Sardinia is in danger as well as other rounds like Portugal and France.

I fear it will be Corsica to leave and we will have one less tarmac rally which is a real shame. I hope they will do something about it.

If one has to leave that should be Mexico in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by AL14

The 2016 contracts don't count too much.
It's just an agreement with the promoter but it is not confirmed officialy by the FIA. So Sardinia is in danger as well as other rounds like Portugal and France.

I fear it will be Corsica to leave and we will have one less tarmac rally which is a real shame. I hope they will do something about it.

If one has to leave that should be Mexico in my opinion.

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I believe China would be a tarmac round. So it's not a loss there.

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Originally Posted by [WRCRR]

Sardinia already has contract for 2016 though...but might very well be in danger for 2017 as the promoter want's to get rid of the island-based events for logistical reasons.

Therefore I strongly believe the event that will be dropped from the 3 currently without a guaranteed place in the calendar (Portugal, Germany, Corsica) will be Tour de Corse. Firstly, it wasn't even supposed to be in WRC for 2015, secondly it is an island-based event and thirdly it has no guaranteed financing in place for the future. Also the rumored October date for the China Rally would fit right in the current slot of Corsica.

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Italy is 3rd or 4th biggest WRC+ market, one of "giants" of Europe in terms of car market and manufacturing, lots of privateers, and Sardinia is 5 times bigger than Corsica in terms of population, furthermore Alghero is Sardinia's biggest tourism destination, while Cagliari area is a big town of 500.000 people. Last but not least, Italy has an ASN very powerful at the FIA. ;)

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

I believe China would be a tarmac round. So it's not a loss there.

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It seems it will be gravel instead (and unfortunately).

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Originally Posted by Motorsportfun

Italy is 3rd or 4th biggest WRC+ market, one of "giants" of Europe in terms of car market and manufacturing, lots of privateers, and Sardinia is 5 times bigger than Corsica in terms of population, furthermore Alghero is Sardinia's biggest tourism destination, while Cagliari area is a big town of 500.000 people. Last but not least, Italy has an ASN very powerful at the FIA. ;)

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Didn't now Italy was a big wrc+ market. Where did you find that statistics?

I would just make some clarifications on what you said. Alghero is one of the biggest destination but not the biggest. Olbia's area for example is bigger. Car market is dying in Italy (as well as other european states) and Fiat, now FCA, is no more a proper italian company. People are buying only secondhand cars. On that side Italy is not that giant anymore although still an important nation.

But you are right overall, I think the good "relationship" with FIA has been crucial till now and will be in the future. Sardinia will be most likely confirmed for 2016.

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Originally Posted by AL14

Didn't now Italy was a big wrc+ market. Where did you find that statistics?

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I downloaded Rally Emotion app (magazine) and read an interview to Oliver Ciesla ;)

For anyone interested in the rallying around Huairou, Beijing, here are links to my pictures from last years event. Unfortunately I have to work and get ready for Rally Australia to prevent me attending this year.

Currently a hard concrete surface on these roads but most likely will change to a gravel event because all the long haul equipment transported to Mexico, Argentina and Australia is set up for gravel.

https://picasaweb.google.com/1138650...eat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/1138650...eat=directlink

https://picasaweb.google.com/1138650...eat=directlink

There are few hotels, close to the current service park, but near the Super Special on day 1, there are many resorts, such as the one used for last years APEC meeting in Beijing. However this is about 60-80km from the current stages.

Rumours from China suggest using roads in Zhangjiakou and Yanqing (new home for the Winter Olympics) as well as Huairou and Miyun, across the north of Beijing. Similar to the way the cycling Tour of Beijing used to run.

Sponsor for this event is believed to be from http://www.letv.com, a major local internet media company.

If China is going to be gravel, WRC has a serious problem with just 1 pure tarmac round.

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Originally Posted by [WRCRR]

Sardinia already has contract for 2016 though...but might very well be in danger for 2017 as the promoter want's to get rid of the island-based events for logistical reasons.

Therefore I strongly believe the event that will be dropped from the 3 currently without a guaranteed place in the calendar (Portugal, Germany, Corsica) will be Tour de Corse. Firstly, it wasn't even supposed to be in WRC for 2015, secondly it is an island-based event and thirdly it has no guaranteed financing in place for the future. Also the rumored October date for the China Rally would fit right in the current slot of Corsica.

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I don't understand the promoter sometimes. Get off your lazy asses and do your jobs. It is logistically difficult? Well buuhuu for you...
Italy and France are two of the biggest nations for rally in europe with big, competetive and thriving national championships. They also have a lot of prominent and active rally media. Most of rally following comes from those two. Corsica is a classic and dare to do things differently. Sardegna has become a modern classic and can't be dropped from the schedule.

'Tis a massive shame that we can't extend the calendar (I assume team economy is the issue).

Australia is not my absolute favorite but I am against dropping that because it wouldn't be a world championship if we didn't go outside europe!

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Originally Posted by itix

I don't understand the promoter sometimes. Get off your lazy asses and do your jobs. It is logistically difficult? Well buuhuu for you...
Italy and France are two of the biggest nations for rally in europe with big, competetive and thriving national championships. They also have a lot of prominent and active rally media. Most of rally following comes from those two. Corsica is a classic and dare to do things differently. Sardegna has become a modern classic and can't be dropped from the schedule.

'Tis a massive shame that we can't extend the calendar (I assume team economy is the issue).

Australia is not my absolute favorite but I am against dropping that because it wouldn't be a world championship if we didn't go outside europe!

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It is not logistics but the sheer cost of having a long haul tarmac event. The extra spares and gear needed would break the budget for many privateers in WRC2 or WRC3. They are already having to run two separate cars, one in Europe and one circling the globe without the need for a third tarmac car for a single event. WRC factory teams could possibly afford it but you do need more entries than them.

The only saving grace for a tarmac round in China could be a fast freight train, currently only 14-16 days (a third of the sea voyage) across Russia etc to China. Maybe the Chinese will help fund teams to transport their gear overland but I doubt it. By the way, BMW send engines this way to their Chinese factories.

Here it is another speculation:
Logistic costs can be cheaper if you put Australia after China. Australia is asking since 2014 to have the last round of the season. Maybe the decision of running China in October will mean that in November there will be Australia as last round and in that case it is Wales to say bye bye.

I have no basis to say it but it is funny to try to predict such moves. Hope to be wrong, I'd like Wales to stay.

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Originally Posted by AL14

Here it is another speculation:
Logistic costs can be cheaper if you put Australia after China. Australia is asking since 2014 to have the last round of the season. Maybe the decision of running China in October will mean that in November there will be Australia as last round and in that case it is Wales to say bye bye.

I have no basis to say it but it is funny to try to predict such moves. Hope to be wrong, I'd like Wales to stay.

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If you are right about that, it will no doubt be another boring gravel rally, destined to flop like the 1999 version (or was it 2000? no I believe Auriol won so it must have been -99). Please promoter, event organisers and FIA, be sensible about this. China has lots of beautiful mountains and concrete roads are an interesting difference from the smooth tarmac of Spain.

May there be a rally appreciating god in heaven!

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Originally Posted by Livewireshock

It is not logistics but the sheer cost of having a long haul tarmac event. The extra spares and gear needed would break the budget for many privateers in WRC2 or WRC3. They are already having to run two separate cars, one in Europe and one circling the globe without the need for a third tarmac car for a single event. WRC factory teams could possibly afford it but you do need more entries than them.

The only saving grace for a tarmac round in China could be a fast freight train, currently only 14-16 days (a third of the sea voyage) across Russia etc to China. Maybe the Chinese will help fund teams to transport their gear overland but I doubt it. By the way, BMW send engines this way to their Chinese factories.

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It shouldn't be impossible to plan the calendar so that you can do a sea voyage and pack stuff in containers. Maersk does several fast Europe to China lines (I know, I work on a ship).

If china can have enough space on either side to send the equipment by sea it shouldn't be impossible. It could even be the last round for all I care, just not another boring gravel rally.

Colin Clark
‏@voiceofrally
From the Beijing Huairou Rally this week. Apparently sponsor confirmed for WRC event pending what they see this week


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMw7D4WWcAAlfcM.jpg

rally is asphalt.
Traxx - WR is Free ‏@Traxx_WiF
Le Beijing Huairou Rally (asphalte, Chine) pourrait avoir la faveur des observateurs FIA pour une intégration en 2016 http://bit.ly/1Ji6X74

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Originally Posted by rallyfiend

I believe China would be a tarmac round. So it's not a loss there.

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If it is a sealed surface then I hope this isn't anything to go by: https://youtu.be/wcJLo_owefo Anyone know if that is a good representation of the rally as a whole?

Gravel isn't boring by it's very nature, in fact the other week I watch the BBC coverage of China Rally 1999 on youtube (and posted it a few pages back on this thread) and I quite liked it. The problems at the time seemed to be about the organisation rather than the stages but I remember Auriol and I think Burns saying at the end of the event it wasn't that bad a rally. Of course it was replaced for 2000...

It would be a shame to lose a tarmac round but I sincerely hope the Italian round returns to tarmac on the mainland - the 1000 Miglia stages around Brescia would be amazing, if a little too similar to the Monte Carlo stages, although Monte Carlo seems to be less alpine based than when I watched it as a kid in the early 2000s.

Also, can someone explain to me the logistical issue with having a gravel car and a tarmac car when the same chassis is used for both surfaces for Rallye Catalunya? If they can convert the setup overnight why can't a car be setup for a tarmac flyaway/island round and converted for the next time it's used on on a flyaway gravel event?

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Originally Posted by Jack4688`

If it is a sealed surface then I hope this isn't anything to go by: https://youtu.be/wcJLo_owefo Anyone know if that is a good representation of the rally as a whole?

Gravel isn't boring by it's very nature, in fact the other week I watch the BBC coverage of China Rally 1999 on youtube (and posted it a few pages back on this thread) and I quite liked it. The problems at the time seemed to be about the organisation rather than the stages but I remember Auriol and I think Burns saying at the end of the event it wasn't that bad a rally. Of course it was replaced for 2000...

It would be a shame to lose a tarmac round but I sincerely hope the Italian round returns to tarmac on the mainland - the 1000 Miglia stages around Brescia would be amazing, if a little too similar to the Monte Carlo stages, although Monte Carlo seems to be less alpine based than when I watched it as a kid in the early 2000s.

Also, can someone explain to me the logistical issue with having a gravel car and a tarmac car when the same chassis is used for both surfaces for Rallye Catalunya? If they can convert the setup overnight why can't a car be setup for a tarmac flyaway/island round and converted for the next time it's used on on a flyaway gravel event?

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So dumb, NZ should be on the calendar!! China Australia and NZ could be cool :)

this little "WRC Powerslide" game is silly but looks fun just to waste some time
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WclZBxaujTI

Colin Clark ‏@voiceofrally
More potential calendar news! Governor of Kangwon state in South Korea attended Rally Germany and apparently wants to take WRC to his region

So the WRC will be just like F1 - anywhere that has the money can get a round of the championship despite no previous pedigree in the sport. At least in the WRC a candidate event must be run, but that's of little comfort...

Great news. Let's hope for rounds both in South Corea and China. And maybe in Azerbaijan too or Russia. I think also Argentina should alternate his round with Brazil.

Is anyone really surprised that Hyundai wants to have their own home event just like all other brands involved have? ;)

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Is anyone really surprised that Hyundai wants to have their own home event just like all other brands involved have? ;)

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they'll hardly make 1-2-3 at their home event atm. btw Ford doesn't have home event?!? where it should be - USA, Germany, or UK (Cumbria)?

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Is anyone really surprised that Hyundai wants to have their own home event just like all other brands involved have? ;)

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What I don't understand is why a lot of people are scared about it.

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Originally Posted by AL14

What I don't understand is why a lot of people are scared about it.

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because they are stuck in the past like old men waiting for Mr Death to come... and they are afraid of evolution and change... scared doggys that perish into the darkness and none remembers them.

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

they'll hardly make 1-2-3 at their home event atm. btw Ford doesn't have home event?!? where it should be - USA, Germany, or UK (Cumbria)?

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I consider Wales Rally GB as a home event for Ford/M-Sport.

The fact with this rumor is that politics on the other side of the world have interest in hosting a WRC round. Not only the manufacturer. That is very very good, it shows the potential of the sport after a decade of crisis with two manufacturers and no will to invest and move on.

Yeah seems like a brilliant idea to have a WRC in a country where this shows up when you google it :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9eq39tNG0

Please enlighten me if there actually does exist a championship.

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

Yeah seems like a brilliant idea to have a WRC in a country where this shows up when you google it :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9eq39tNG0

Please enlighten me if there actually does exist a championship.

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So, using your logic. Football would be played only in England by now, basket would be blasphemy outside USA. No way to play rugby outside anglosaxon countries...

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

Yeah seems like a brilliant idea to have a WRC in a country where this shows up when you google it :p
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kn9eq39tNG0

Please enlighten me if there actually does exist a championship.

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So why does a country needs to have a rich rally history or any histroy at all to introduce a WRC event ??

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Originally Posted by N.O.T

So why does a country needs to have a rich rally history or any histroy at all to introduce a WRC event ??

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Maybe not, but you might have to source an organisation to run it from somewhere else don't you think?

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Originally Posted by SubaruNorway

Maybe not, but you might have to source an organisation to run it from somewhere else don't you think?

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yes of course... or provide technical support and knowledge... whats wrong with that ?

I would prefer a WRC round in the North neighbor. With the Dear Leader around, for sure there would be lots of spectators...https://youtu.be/gLVciTOtwN0

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Originally Posted by Mirek

I consider Wales Rally GB as a home event for Ford/M-Sport.

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ok, but I wonder as last year Hyundai won their "home" event in Germany, now all of a sudden their home is South Korea?!? At least that was my impression last year....

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Originally Posted by Rally Power

I would prefer a WRC round in the North neighbor. With the Dear Leader around, for sure there would be lots of spectators...https://youtu.be/gLVciTOtwN0

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They could always organize some stage in the border like Sweden and Norway. That would be exciting indeed.

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

ok, but I wonder as last year Hyundai won their "home" event in Germany, now all of a sudden their home is South Korea?!? At least that was my impression last year....

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Calling Rally Deutschland a home rally for Hyundai is pure marketing. Yes, the motorsport department is located there but it's clear for everybody that Korea is a home of Korean brand. Don't You agree? You know I live in a country where we have a big Hyundai factory and an extremely aggressive marketing department of Hyundai Czech. One of their base tools is to repeat and repeat that Hyundai is a Czech car. Take it as You will.

Which is the best Czech Rally for WRC?
Hyundai/ South Korea should go for an Asian World RX round - should Hyundai ever get better at RX. Leave the Asian WRC round for China/ Japan rotation.(when / if Toyota returns)

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Originally Posted by AL14

So, using your logic. Football would be played only in England by now, basket would be blasphemy outside USA. No way to play rugby outside anglosaxon countries...

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You´re absolutely right about that. But a country playing football, let´s say only on gravel instead of proper grass and having 1/10 of playing field, wouldn´t get World Soccer Cup by no chance. :)

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Originally Posted by Mirek

Calling Rally Deutschland a home rally for Hyundai is pure marketing. Yes, the motorsport department is located there but it's clear for everybody that Korea is a home of Korean brand. Don't You agree?

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Yes it should be marketing. After all that is all what is about. Anyway I don't see much of it lately with their WRC campaign with seems no development of their cars. Perhaps 16' will be different anyway....

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Originally Posted by Mirek

we have a big Hyundai factory and an extremely aggressive marketing department of Hyundai Czech. One of their base tools is to repeat and repeat that Hyundai is a Czech car. Take it as You will.

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No I didn't know that, very strange as I've always knew in Czech there is only 1 car maker - Skoda. I wonder how the Koreans manage to break this marketing movement.....

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Originally Posted by AL14

So, using your logic. Football would be played only in England by now, basket would be blasphemy outside USA. No way to play rugby outside anglosaxon countries...

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Some historic sources may argue that origin of football is Gaul. Don't ask me about the ball they have used.....

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Originally Posted by stefanvv

No I didn't know that, very strange as I've always knew in Czech there is only 1 car maker - Skoda. I wonder how the Koreans manage to break this marketing movement.....

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Actually we have here more car factories. There are two factories of Škoda, one of TPCA (Toyota-Peugeot-Citroën) and one of Hyundai. Why I said that is the way Hyundai marketing works. They are really extremely aggressive. Their campaign goes directly against Škoda here. They are laughing about Škoda in their commercials, in media interview their leadership says that Škoda is competition for Dacia not Hyundai (while in the same time half of their commercials speaks about "the jealous neighbour from Mladá Boleslav"). I personally find the way they do that as pathetic. On the other hand maybe we will have a works Hyundai R5 in our championship when it's ready. Who knows if they have balls to do that :cool:

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Originally Posted by Rallyper

You´re absolutely right about that. But a country playing football, let´s say only on gravel instead of proper grass and having 1/10 of playing field, wouldn´t get World Soccer Cup by no chance. :)

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Ironically South Corea had a football situation not far from your description but they did host a World Soccer Championship back in 2002. ;)