People Power

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Originally Posted by Rollo

I was university educated in a state-run and owned university and when I tore my ACL, I was operated on in a state-run and owned hospital at zero end user cost to me. The country I live in does not have poor education and poor healthcare; quite on the contrary.

I live in a country that also happens outrank the United States in terms of life expectancy, literacy rates, quality-of-life index etc. The United States also happens to be the worst of the industrialised nations when it comes to infant mortality rates.



So then to summarise. Using your criteria: the country I live in is better at providing education and healthcare. Your position based on the free-market providing better outcomes is therefore bunk.

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Then why do millions of people every year try to come to the USA and a significantly smaller amount try to go you yours?

Could it be those "Facts" are just more propaganda to further a socialist agenda?

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Then why do millions of people every year try to come to the USA and a significantly smaller amount try to go you yours?

Could it be those "Facts" are just more propaganda to further a socialist agenda?

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One there from the 'My dad's tougher than your dad' school of debating.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Then why do millions of people every year try to come to the USA and a significantly smaller amount try to go you yours?

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Net migration for 2009/10:
USA - 2.25m on a population of 312m = 0.72115%
AUS - 177,600 on a population of 22.7m = 0.78238%

A "significantly smaller amount"? Proportionally it's 8% more than the United States.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

And no, poor education and poor healthcare will never go away no matter the system.

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How do you know? Seriously, isn't that a bit of a deaf statement?

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Originally Posted by chuck34

If we turned over the education and healthcare systems tomorrow to the pure free market system, there will be a period of time where designing men will deny access or otherwise rip people off. I am under no illusion that the system is completely perfect. However over the long term those designing men will tend to go bankrupt as people turn away from their poor schemes, and develop better alternatives. Therefore in the long term, the system will work itself out to provide better service at a lower cost.

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All was interesting and possible until thinking that something can be better and cheaper part.

Somehow the current industrial production that was moved to China based on the rules of the free market proves that wrong. Yes it got cheaper but quality is much worse and can't see it improve too much.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

The free market works in politics just as well as it does in economics. If there is so much demand for a particular voice (in this case one that isn't tied to corportations), then a candidate will eventually show up to fill that demand. Why doesn't one of the leaders/organizers of OWS step up and run for office?

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There is no free-market in politics.

I'd now like to cite myself on this:

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Duverger's Law suggests that in a plurality voting system, over time it should produce a tendency towards two-party politics. Really the only way to upset the system is to form a new party with sufficient clout to upend one of the existing two.
Especially in the United States where there is no direct opposition to the President in the mechanics of government (because he doesn't sit in the congress), it means that the job itself will only be a revolving door between two parties.

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Because politics produces a tendency towards two-party politics, over time the relative market power of those two parties increases. Over time, due to economies-of-scale and other factors like the ability to raise capital and advertising, politics moves towards a duopoly.

That is what exists in America and indeed a great deal of single-seat parliamentary democracies. It's exacerbated by the first-past-the-post voting system and the single-seat presidency.

Your conceit, that "The free market works in politics just as well as it does in economics" might very well be true but the free market fails for precisely the same reasons - hence Duverger's Law.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

For education I would define "better" as smarter, getting higher marks on standardized tests, heck in the US I'd settle for everyone graduating High School to be able to read all at a lower cost.

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You are setting the bar lower there. getting better marks on standardized tests doesn't make one smarter. I see a better education in a completely different form.

What about making education better by allowing kids to develop their creative capabilities in a non standardized system? A system that allows every kid to make the best of their own abilities, where they do not have to be afraid that they will fail a standardized test even though their are exceptional in a certain field?

Standardization only suits the corporations who look for cheap workforce with standard knowledge required for a certain standard job.

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Originally Posted by chuck34

ATo define "better" in the transportation market would mean getting me from point A to point B faster and at a lower cost.

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Lower cost, lower cost, and again lower cost...
Let's not think only about the costs, we are talking about a world where the money wouldn't be anymore so unevenly distributed.
What about the quality of the service, don't they need to meet certain security standards? What about not only being fast but also on time?
Believe me, costs are not most important.

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

Then why do millions of people every year try to come to the USA and a significantly smaller amount try to go you yours?

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How do you know that?!

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Originally Posted by ioan

You are setting the bar lower there. getting better marks on standardized tests doesn't make one smarter. I see a better education in a completely different form.

What about making education better by allowing kids to develop their creative capabilities in a non standardized system? A system that allows every kid to make the best of their own abilities, where they do not have to be afraid that they will fail a standardized test even though their are exceptional in a certain field?

Standardization only suits the corporations who look for cheap workforce with standard knowledge required for a certain standard job.

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A very good post.