Markus Ippach ����������
@ma_ipp
·
6h
#WRC fun facts: if Ogier wouldn't take part in the season...
Kalle would be at 188 points (+18)
Evans 126 (+11)
Neuville 123 (+11)
Tänak 112 (+8)
Lappi 93 (+6)
Sordo 51 (+5)
Taka 50 (+9)
Loubet 32 (+4)
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Markus Ippach ����������
@ma_ipp
·
6h
#WRC fun facts: if Ogier wouldn't take part in the season...
Kalle would be at 188 points (+18)
Evans 126 (+11)
Neuville 123 (+11)
Tänak 112 (+8)
Lappi 93 (+6)
Sordo 51 (+5)
Taka 50 (+9)
Loubet 32 (+4)
I tend to agree with you about Rally2. There's 16 of us travelling to Finland next week and I don't think I or some of the rest would go that far to see the event if it was Rally2 only, they are not fast/spectacular/loud enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
Just my opinion.
I tend to disagree about the spectacle.
Cars driven at 100%, or even slightly over, are fun to watch. If its a Rally1, Rally2, or a Volvo PV from 1959 i dont care, its fun.
But, to see whatever car driven at 80% is dull, if its a WRC or not.
Maybe some real classics is ok at slower speed, if its the right car:)
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Seems you haven’t been to a wrc round to compare the two classes
Wrc2 is boring as hell compared to rally1 even when Solberg, Mikkelsen etc top drivers come past me
It would be dull as main class
Talking of the spectacle and drivers, this year has brought to the fore interesting live observations.
If you want to gasp and be astounded, watch Kalle, Ogier, Ott, Thierry and Lappi. They are pedal-to-the-metal, wherever possible, with some superb lines. Worth travelling to watch that lot.
Evans and Sordo are quick without necessarily standing out. Loubet and Katsuta are very hesitant, clearly not confident. They are lifting where others flat-out. Not hard to work out where they are losing.
It's dull because you have the comparison, and the faster cars go first...Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
And the other thing is the drivers as you mentioned... Solberg and Mikkelsen are "top drivers" but in WRC2... if you but TOP drivers in wrc2 the spectacle will be fine ;)
Been in sweden, yes.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Of course its a difference, when you get these cars directly after each other, but if you don't have the faster car before, you won't feel the rally2 as slow. Its not slow.
But, of course, with a top driver at full send in it.
Its also easy to see at TV that the hybrid is faster than Rally2, but would you actually think about it if the Rally2s are top class, and the Rally3's comes after? No, i don't think so.
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We’ve been here before.
Group A was rubbish when we had Group B, when there was no more Group B it was fine. Sure the Group A cars evolved quite a bit from the start of 1987 to the end of even 1988, but those cars were slower than a modern Rally 2 car is.
I’m pretty sure the same will be the case now, take away the Rally 1 cars, give the Rally 2 a bit more power and sound so they rev out a bit more and all will be fine, you won’t even think about it a year down the line.
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
A Rally2 car is much faster that a early 2000's WRCar, its quite long time ago some finish guy (sunninen?) drove John Hauglands testroad in a Škoda R5 40 sek faster than Colin McRae in a Focus WRC.
They use around 5min on this particular road.
Is it just the sound that makes the old WRC feel faster, or are there the change of drivingteqnic with less oversteer style that makes it like this?
Or is it just us old farts wishing in to be faster?;)
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The noise, the lack of of big aero and the fact many of the older cars were bigger saloons, made them seems more exciting. The drivers also threw them around a lot and were sideways more often.
The sound is a big part of it, and particularly back then with the Group A cars when they had the bigger restrictors. From 95 onwards they all sounded a bit rubbish because they didn’t rev. That didn’t change until 2011 when they went to the 1.6 engine cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Driving techniques probably a bit too, but if you have all the top guys driving Rally2 type cars, they will be pushing like hell and it will be spectacular, and there will be plenty of them.
My only concession would be to give them a bit more power and noise, I bet that can be achieved by allowing them to breathe a bit better alone.
Running 34mm restrictors is allowed in some UK Championships and this can make a big difference. One very average driver with this power won 3 stages on the BRC Jim Clark Rally vs Fourmaux.
Make Rally2 the top class, give them bigger spoilers, improve the sound, use e-fuel and promote it as eco friendly.
And see what happens.
It seems that the 34mm restrictor can make a huge difference - https://www.ewrc-results.com/results...2023/?s=427051
Vaidotas Žala was driving a R5 Skoda with a 34mm restrictor and in the end he was almost a minute faster than everyone else. He's a very fast driver, but I think that the 34mm restrictor also helped quite a bit and the competition was also not slow.
Rally1 happens :)Quote:
Originally Posted by bomber21
Rally1 is a dead horse. Quit whip it.Quote:
Originally Posted by meh
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Group A was spectacular because of the noise and driving style, even if technically the cars were a step down from Group B or WRC that followed. Besides power and aero I think a lot of the spectacle is due to suspension and tyres. Since Group A there was a lot of development in that area so cars run much smoother and look less dramatic. I've been watching Passats de Canto videos on youtube lately, they upload a lot of Group A stuff and it's quite fun to see them slide around on gravel and bounce quite visibly on tarmac.
Unfortunately it seems the WRC is missing the point once again, the product itself is not the issue, maybe some small tweaks to the format can be done but I will say it again the main issue is lack of top level cars. In Estonia there were only 8 at the start but we were lucky nobody had major issues so there was something to follow for most of the rally. Just to take some example, if Evans had a puncture and Loubet took a wheel off again then Hyundai would have told Neuville and Lappi to hold position and there would be no fight to follow. I think if there would be around 15 top class cars starting the event a lot of the issues would be resolved by the increased competition. Maybe 1 or 2 would be pay drivers and always be at the rear but I'm pretty sure there are enough interesting drivers to make a more interesting lineup. Another advantage is youngsters get more seat time in the top cars. As several have mentioned recently it's a big step and if only a few drivers are in those cars it's very hard for someone new to step up and so the chance of having someone dominate is increased in my opinion.
So today I've grabbed a local croatian car magazine.
There was an subject of salaries in motorsport.
najplaćeniji = most payed
milijuna = millions
They are talking in €
https://i.postimg.cc/MThCMdQj/viber-...-53-06-303.jpg
I highly doubt.
Yeah, I don't think that has any basis in facts or reality, unfortunately.
In the case of Loubet and Fourmaux, is it not more likely that's closer to being what they're paying for their drives...
Subaru Motorsports USA unveils their new rally car. Driver Brandon Semenuk and co-driver Keaton Williams will pilot the car in its racing debut at Ojibwe Forests Rally on August 24-25. Extreme sport legend Travis Pastrana will join in a second car in the 2024 season.
I know this news is not related to WRC, but it's still good to see the engagement of the official manufacturer team in rallying in these hard times:
https://www.subaru.com/subaru-motors...24-season.html
I dont know if this has been discussed here already, but to me next logical move from Oliver would be Toyotas Rally2 next season if they want him and he is interested, and maybe 1-2 good season with the car and then maybe some yaris rally1 drives?
Yes, maybe even a Rally1 outing or two next year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyest
But the big question is whether Toyota pick Pajari instead.
Solberg's main issue has been getting to finish. It looked like he improved until Sardinia, but Sardinia (multiple issues, not just the first one) and Estonia were a stepback again.
Pajari seems much more reliable already and is coming up in speed.
It almost seems that Pajari is already set for Toyota so the question is whether Toyota will try to get both.
Today at 1300 CEST they launch "rally TV". Who are they? Is it same people as WRC All Live or what? I´m confused...
I hope I am wrong but I think it's a nothingburger. I assume it's the same people same technology but put together on a single website for all 3 series they coverQuote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Then if you compare to other world champions such as Ott Tänak and Sébastien Ogier, Kalle doesn't have to be a d*ck at any point, in a way. He doesn't shout in that team or demand things by yelling or bark at people, or anything like that which the aforementioned have done, current Hyundai driver Lappi loads.
https://www.is.fi/ralli/art-2000009782690.html
Looks like Ogier and Tanak will go to Hyundai next year ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by flat_right
Sad news from sweden, a driver killed in a national rally.
Its the 5th(?) death this year in european rally, is it just unluck, or is it anything fundamental with rules, safety or just speed?
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A codriver was killed last month in the US, as well. At a time when safety has take a big jump forward with pods that track each car's location, register shocks from a collision and set off an emergency transponder if it is not manually triggered or overridden. I've seen more emergencies on stages in two years than the last fifteen, and they've all been serious enough to need ambulances.
Always sad to hear the loss of life on a rally.
Today, the greatest factor has to be speed and the shorter distances covered. Decades ago, it was rare to hear of big crashes on local events. Partly because the cars weren't on the same level, partly because the stages were longer and intensity lower. Curiously, the safety measures are so much better today!!!!
Nice video from a Greek Youtuber who loves cars and got the chance to co-drive for Loubet in Acropolis Rally stages (during the test sessions that happen these days)
https://youtu.be/cZy4voPA2KA?si=TfxsuOGIpL1cHijf
Speed, speed, speed. I´ve been telling this for ages. It´s maybe time to get back on "square one". At least on national basis. Anyone can buy a monster even though they can´t drive.Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
Hmm only 6 entries for the W2RC race in Argentina. Dakar keeps atracting brands but the general championship has also been held by Toyota, basically. 5 of the 6 cars were Hilux. I guess we could start thinking on HOW TO MAKE Rally Monte Carlo bigger, to atract new teams, manufacturers and drivers, even if its just for one-offs. It would be really important for WRC as a whole, eh?
Sorry, Dave Richards killed the concept of unique 'Events' and for some reason pretty much everyone involved in the WRC since has committed to the marriage with the cloverleaf, cookie cutter formula, until death do them part...Quote:
Originally Posted by lmmjvss
I've often joked that if they ran the WEC, they'd want Le Mans run entirely over one weekend; practice, qualifying, and a 6 Hour race, like most of the other races........Unique events do work, we see it in other disciplines, but WRC only seems to look at the F1 model which is a poor example.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
Interesting!
Yes, maybe WRC could have Monte Carlo as opem event. Like "4wd open, 2wd open". Maybe an electric class open? And run it. You crown these winners but pay point for the rally1,2,3 entries only for the overall championship. Like.. Pastrana wins monte carlo on that gymkhana Subaru. The first rally1 car (lets say Kalle) finished P2. Pastrana won the event, but Kalle gets the points for the victory in the Championship. Something like that.
I'd also go for at least two rally sprint on the calendar and two "enduro" rounds too. Need these stuff
Official video with Ford Mustang Mach-E Rally:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClaT2MnkYd4