Ant West

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Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles

Ok, X -ecutioner,

West needs a top bike to perform? The same could be said of anyone - take your pick of the current crop (yep, even the Doctor... even he couldn't make the Kawasaki go fast). Your argument is specious at best.

That I took time to point this out dismays me the most of all.

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Comparing an absolute nobody in GP racing to a 9 time world champion, and quite possibly the greatest motorcycle racer in history. This is priceless! :rotflmao:

I think most, even the non-Rossi fans will agree that what Rossi did with the 2004 Yamaha M1 (which was shyte btw) is what is called TRUE talent. "Westy" on the same bike would have finished 20th on his best day.

I really hope he gets Crutchlow's seat on the Yamaha R6 next year. I would like to see how he performs on that bike next year, whether he can win the championship or not, if he has a ride that is.

You seem to have missed my point - stating that West seems to only be able to perform to race winning standard on a top competitive bike is a truism. One that could be said of any rider.

As for comparing West to Rossi well, I didn't actually. Maybe invoking the kawkasaki as an example was confusing for you, but the point still stands - even the greatest rider in history couldn't make it a race winning bike.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles

Ok, X -ecutioner,

West needs a top bike to perform? The same could be said of anyone - take your pick of the current crop (yep, even the Doctor... even he couldn't make the Kawasaki go fast). Your argument is specious at best.

That I took time to point this out dismays me the most of all.

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If you define fast as significantly faster than West could go in a Kawasaki, then yes, Valentino would make it go fast.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

If you define fast as significantly faster than West could go in a Kawasaki, then yes, Valentino would make it go fast.

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Yep, you are right. Maybe I should have said "race winner" :)

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Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles

You seem to have missed my point - stating that West seems to only be able to perform to race winning standard on a top competitive bike is a truism. One that could be said of any rider.

As for comparing West to Rossi well, I didn't actually. Maybe invoking the kawkasaki as an example was confusing for you, but the point still stands - even the greatest rider in history couldn't make it a race winning bike.

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Stoner nearly won a race in 2006 in a privateer bike, in his debut year. It was not the best bike on the grid, at all. Wests performances in MotoGP weren't of a high standard, and by his supersport results, neither were they.

One disclaimer: IMO West has talent to burn, but the flipside is that he is a bit of a bogan and doesn't do himself any favours, presentation wise.

However, the privateer Honda is a far better ride than any iteration of the factory Kawsakis. It is a little like the factory Suzuki in that way, except even more disapointing - a company with the resources of Kawasaki Heavy Industries should be able to build a blinder of a race bike. But it's a bit of a pig - and anyone with a choice stays well clear of it, and if they dont have a choice (Melandri, Hopkins), they get away asap. Career in tatters...

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Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles

You seem to have missed my point - stating that West seems to only be able to perform to race winning standard on a top competitive bike is a truism. One that could be said of any rider.

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Yes? And that's what I said in my previous post. If just like any other average rider, he needs almost the best bike on the grid to perform, then I fail to understand what special talent does he possess?

People like Rossi and Stoner are a cut above the rest in this department, in that they have shone in less than perfect machinery. Rossi on the 2004 M1, and Stoner on the 2006 LCR Honda. Anyway, it's not even a comparison.

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Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles

As for comparing West to Rossi well, I didn't actually. Maybe invoking the kawkasaki as an example was confusing for you, but the point still stands - even the greatest rider in history couldn't make it a race winning bike.

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We have no way of knowing that unless Rossi rides a Kwak. I can bet that he would do a much better job than what West could ever manage.

Well, Rossi and Burgess did turn that shyte Yamaha M1 into a race winning and a championship winning machine. Given the right attention, a lot of hard work and the right funding, I am pretty sure that Kawasaki could have been world champions with Rossi.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheFamousEccles

One disclaimer: IMO West has talent to burn, but the flipside is that he is a bit of a bogan and doesn't do himself any favours, presentation wise.

However, the privateer Honda is a far better ride than any iteration of the factory Kawsakis. It is a little like the factory Suzuki in that way, except even more disapointing - a company with the resources of Kawasaki Heavy Industries should be able to build a blinder of a race bike. But it's a bit of a pig - and anyone with a choice stays well clear of it, and if they dont have a choice (Melandri, Hopkins), they get away asap. Career in tatters...

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Even if he does have a lot of talent, if you want to be the best at what you do you need to harness it. He may be a good person but he does not strike me as someone who is intelligent/clever enough to understand how to harness his riding talent and take action on it.

And in this regard, I think there are many others out there riding motorbikes who are like him. They might have less or more talent but at the end of it, he really has failed to impress.

Which is why I don't understand the hype.

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Originally Posted by theugsquirrel

Even if he does have a lot of talent, if you want to be the best at what you do you need to harness it. He may be a good person but he does not strike me as someone who is intelligent/clever enough to understand how to harness his riding talent and take action on it.

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Agreed 100%. There are a lot of extremely talented motorsport riders/drivers, some which are naturally talented, and some which work their butts off to become as good, if not better than the talented ones. Fernando Alonso and Felipe Massa are good examples of this in F1.

While once-in-a-lifetime legends like Valentino are not only extremely naturally talented, but also very hard working, and of course this excellent combination has gotten him 9 world championships.

It seems West has some talent, but that's it. Instead of working hard to develop it, he is either laid back, or spends his time whining and moaning about his equipment, or praying for rain, from what I have seen. Hardly champion material.

In the context of WSS 2009, he was the equal of former champions Foret and Pitt - both of whom were with better-regarded teams - so it's hardly been a disgrace by any means. There's also a comment above on Westy fading after the early rounds - not really true at all as he was second at Brno and fourth at Magny-Cours which was the second-last round of the season (and indeed, his last).

(what on earth am I doing defending him after all this time - this is bizarre! :p )

I think he has a decent amount to offer one of the top WSS teams - indeed like the Yamaha squad who are looking for at least one rider and you've gotta imagine Fabien Foret is edging closer to retirement after being pummelled by Cal this year. Eugene, Kenan and Juan Lascorz will likely be the 2010 favourites along with whoever gets the Yamaha seats and the other Ten Kate one, so he's got a chance.