There are a few who tried to go straight to cup and none of them lasted very long. It much harder to drive a 1500kg stock car than a 600kg F1 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
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There are a few who tried to go straight to cup and none of them lasted very long. It much harder to drive a 1500kg stock car than a 600kg F1 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
Kyle Busch is only taking a "test drive" in a F1 car ...Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
the article DOESN'T say that Kyle Busch is going to F1 ... (only that he would like to ...)
F1 is trying to draw from NASCAR's popularity & it's dominantly American fanbase :!:
Kyle Busch ISN'T going to F1 :!:
(Kyle Busch's F1 "test drive" will eliminate the fantasy)
I think a more appropriate way of phrasing that would be: "Driving a stock car and a F1 car are two widely different disciplines."Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
I would agree wholeheatedly with that Andrewmcm. NASCAR is pretty much in its own little box as far as motorsport disciplines go. This is purely a personal opinion, but NASCAR is more a type of entertainment than a sport. I think in terms of attitudes towards motorsport, Europeans are much more purist than US. Can you imagine the fuss if they tried introducing a "Chase for the Cup" idea into F1? I think thats why drivers raised in Europe tend to aim for F1/touring cars/sports cars rather than stock cars. Although, if Franchitti or perhaps in the future, Wheldon where to make a go of it, it might become more of an option to them. An element of it as well is drivers finding the right discipline for them. Look at how many drivers have been outstanding on their way up, only to look very average (or worse!) once they reach the top echelon.
What a snob.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
Yeah, whatever happened to Tony Stewart anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roy
Sorry, I think I may have missed something! What part of my comment was snobbish?! Please enlighten me
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
I wouldnt say snobbish, Just plain bull**** would be more accurate.
LOL, seem to have inadvertantly hit on a bit of a nerve here!
I've taken a little more interest in NASCAR since Montoya made the move across but I just can't see past the endless cautions breaking up thw flow of a race. I'd much rather see a race won the the quickest driver/car combination than seeing a hard fought lead wiped out by a "debris" caution.
Didn't realise quite how much hostility there would be in here towards someone expressing an opinion.
He raced the #44 Shell sponsored Busch car on the off weekends.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rex Monaco
debris cautions can be a pain in the arse but its a product of oval racing. You cant leave a piece a sheet metal out on the track. As well, dont look at a caution as a break in the racing, look at it as an opportunity for the drivers to work on and fix their cars, and as a time when a strategist can work his magic. Having guys take two right side tyres and other guys behind on four fresh tyres is interesting to watch. Same thing with fuel strategy, can you eek it out an extra couple of laps?, if you can you win the race if you cant you'll probably end up a couple of laps down.
generally week from week the quickest driver/car combination/with the best pit stops/communication/and ability to keep up with the track will win.
I dont get your comments about americans not being purist racers. Ive just never seen that myself.
A debris caution for chunks of car on the track is completely understandable, but too often , the flags get thrown for debris the TV cameras seem unable to pick up, if you get my meaning!
Maybe I'm just wired differently but oval racing has just never had the same interest for me. Don't get me wrong, I'll still sit and watch anything with wheels racing and I consider the Daytona and Indianapolis in my "to do" list of races to see but I find the highlight videos on nascar.com tell me everything I need to know about a race.
I meant that American fans seem much more willing to accept just about any change to the sport in the name of entertainment, with the most extreme example so far being the chase. All but writing off over two thirds of a seasons worth of racing to ensure a closer finish in the championship just seems a step too far. What happens if someone still manages to run away with championship, even after the chase? Do they make it a one off end of season race for the top ten in the points, winner takes all?
Anyway, back to the original topic, I think any top driver in any top series around the world, given enough preparation time, could make it in anything. Jeff Gordon has proven it by lapping relatively quickly in the F1 Williams a few years back, Rossi was close to moving to F1 with Ferrari after some promising tests for Ferrari and countless F1 drivers becoming successful in other catergories. Schumacher has even had a little success on bikes!
Lawd Lawd. We poor ol' simple minded 'muricans sho nuff is glad you high falutin' sophisticates frum way over thur will lower youselves to mingle wiff us.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
NASCAR and the TV companies have been alot better at showing the debris this year since. The drivers started complaining about debris cautions. They should have been making the effort in the first place.Quote:
A debris caution for chunks of car on the track is completely understandable, but too often , the flags get thrown for debris the TV cameras seem unable to pick up, if you get my meaning!
You really cant get a good view of a race from highlights on nascar.com. Ive watched races and then watched the hour long highlight shows on Channel 5. You miss massive chunks of the race and most of the stories from the pits. I like finding out during the race whos loose, whos tight etc and seeing what changes to the cars they are making during the pitstops.Quote:
Maybe I'm just wired differently but oval racing has just never had the same interest for me. Don't get me wrong, I'll still sit and watch anything with wheels racing and I consider the Daytona and Indianapolis in my "to do" list of races to see but I find the highlight videos on nascar.com tell me everything I need to know about a race.
The highlight shows just follow whos leading, the real story is how they got to the lead. Following someones progress from the back of the pack to the front is fun to watch, even if it isnt your driver thats doing it.
Generally the american fans dont like the chase either. NASCAR would like to think that the low ticket sales are down to the economical downturn, but i believe it has more to do with the chase format and grass roots fans being fed up with what many see (including me) as a watered down points system and NASCARs top people forgetting where and who put the sport where it is, with traditions being broken.Quote:
I meant that American fans seem much more willing to accept just about any change to the sport in the name of entertainment, with the most extreme example so far being the chase. All but writing off over two thirds of a seasons worth of racing to ensure a closer finish in the championship just seems a step too far. What happens if someone still manages to run away with championship, even after the chase? Do they make it a one off end of season race for the top ten in the points, winner takes all?
I give up! You could very easily have taken that as a compliment, meaning that you were more open minded to change but instead you've chosen to take it as an insult. If this forums attitude to fans of other forms of motor sport is typical of NASCAR fans, I think I'll reconsider any planned trips to Daytona!Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roy
With your condescending attitude, you probably wouldn't have enjoyed it anyway. BTW, the last two races that I've attended have been Formula One races. I'm not just a "NASCAR Fan". People are human beings, not stereotypes to categorize.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
I agree. Highlights packages for any motorsport are awful, because there is not any tension building up to the "highlights" of the race. That definitely ruins the enjoyment for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Haulin'AssAndTurnin Left
;) I wouldn’t worry about it, some people are just to one track minded to acknowledge that other formulas of racing are just as prestigious or require an equal skill set to nascar. I enjoy many types of racing including nascar, although my main focus is on Rally. When I first started reading your comments I was thinking what an intelligent point of view, but some people just don’t see the talent it takes to drive in other formulas. Usually their favorite argument is that in other racing its all about the technology in the car and the driver is basically just along for the ride. When someone starts talking like that you just have to shake you're head, have a little laugh, and walk away. One of the best articles that I have ever read was on taking drivers from different formulas of racing and testing them against each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
Thanks for the support Saabaru, was beginning to wonder! Didn't realise that an opinion could be wrong! As I mentioned, I'll watch pretty much anything, from clubbie racing to F1 and have attented just about every form of motorsport there is, bar NASCAR and consider myself a motorsport fan, although if I had to choose, the BTCC is my first love. NASCAR, IN MY OPINION, seems to lean more towards entertainment than sport.
You know that would be an interesting special for the Speed Channel. Take the top five drivers in the US from NASCAR, IRL, Rally (RA and USRC), and Baja and have them all compete against each other in each form of racing.
They do have the international race of champions at wembly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Saabaru
I went to thr ROC last year. Great fun and no-one takes it seriously. Being racing drivers, once the visors are down they all want to win, but I don't think anyone is going to claim that Mattias Ekstrom is the greatest driver walking the planet at the moment!
true, i didnt go but watched some on TV. looked bloody cold. If they do it again ill go.
Was bloody freezing! New Wembley: Very nice, needs some heating! LOL
Woo Hoo! Patrick Carpentier on the Pole At New Hampshire !! A Canadian from Quebec. A First, to my knowledge that a Canadian has sat on a Cup pole.
This guy can flat out qualify, no doubt about it. Even without a rain delay he would have been in the top 10.
Honourable mention to Bobby Labonte, but a 'Northern Boy' did him out of what was looking like a pole for the Petty Organization (or whatever it is called now).
GO Paddy GO !!
It ISN'T where a driver starts that is important ...
it is where the driver FINISHES that counts :!:
IMO Patrick Carpentier will steadily progress to the back ... :s mokin:
Carpentier will go from the penthouse to the outhouse in only a few laps. http://www.motorsportforum.com/forum...ongue-anim.gif
the way Harvicks car looks, I give his lead maybe 5 laps at most
It's not so much the series, it is more about the driver - Some drivers are very versitile, but these days most of them specialise from an early age.Quote:
Originally Posted by mpj4582
How many times have we seen somebody switch disipline & be very average (watch Villeneuve at Le Mans or Mansell in Touring Cars - both F1/Indy champions who got trounced by drivers who worked their way up from border line club racing).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonD
His sentiments of F1 days are shared by many. JV was bad enough in F1, in NASCAR I can just hope that he gets run over. JV should stay in Canada!
The fact is that the great open wheelers can make it in NASCAR, Tony S is a perfect example/ So, if a newcomer to NASCAR does not make it, we will know that they were not that good to begin with!
One thing to remember... the team & crew chief make a huge difference.
There is no way an open-wheel driver with minimal Nascar experience could hope to be competitive in a team that is barely competitive with a Nascar veteran.
Examples:
Hornish has had some decent perfomances but sits in the bottom 3rd in points, while his 2 first-rate teammates sit mired midpack, despite a win each.
Montoya has actually out-performed his teammates, but usually runs mid-pack, just like Ganassi's Nascar team usually always has. His former teammate Franchitti wasn't so lucky, as Ganassi shut his team down due to lack of money... a pretty sure sign he never had a chance in the first place.
AJ Almendinger looked just as incompetant as the team he was driving for last year, but this year, they have hired experienced & skilled people and turned things around. Both AJ & Scott Speed have had good results this year, as they are being helped by people who know what they are doing.
Right now, Nascar is too competitive for ANYONE to shine much above the level of their team.
One open-wheel champion has had enough of NASCAR ... :eek:
Dario Franchitti is returning to the IRL & saying good-bye to NASCAR in 2009. :s
http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/head...urn/index.html
I guess that Dario is slinking back to the shallow end of the pool with his tail between his legs.
Dario didn't have proper training to be in cup he should of been in Nationwide not everyone can be Juan Pablo Montoya :) Anyways I think he broke his ankle as well. He was feed to the sharks but he has been competitive in every series he's been in. If he would have done it right he would have been successful. But he was on the Chip Ganassi straight to cup plan. Who has been sucessful that way? Not Tony Stewart or Jeff Gordon they spent time in Busch series.
For the record, I like Dario Franchitti, I do feel he was promoted to Cup too quickly,Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Roy
Dario Franchitti has nothing to be ashamed of, he was a pawn used by Chip Gana$$i,
Gana$$i thought he could cash-in on the IRL Champion's name & make some big money,
unfortunately the NASCAR sponsors weren't impressed with the 2007 IRL Champion Dario Franchitti. :s
Dario needed seat-time in a GOOD stockcar, say a RCR, Roush or Gibbs Nationwide stockcar,
with the proper experience I think Dario Franchitti could have been very competitve !
Chip Gana$$i's Cup cars are lacking & IMO Dario Franchitti didn't have a fair opportunity for success. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2...k/thum/1da.gif
I would have liked to seen Dario Franchitti land a GOOD Nationwide Series stockcar,
then after a year in the Nationwide Series moved back to Cup in a GOOD Cup Series stockcar.
Good Luck to you Dario Franchitti in any series you choose to race in,
& if the proper ride in NASCAR comes available, I hope you will return. http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g2.../thum/yeah.gif
Thought I would put this here as Mika Salo was a former open wheel driver.
http://www.jayski.com/cupnews.htm#salo
Though it does say that he only wants to try a stock car to see what it is like and not committing himself to anything.
Max Papis to race in 18 Cup races in 2009 ...
Papis made 2 Cup starts this season, he finished 35th @ Infineon & 43rd @ Watkins Glen ...
Papis also made 7 Nationwide starts 2006 thru 2008 (1 top 5, 1 top 10) ...
his best finish was 3rd in 2007 @ Montreal.
http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/head...009/index.html
i see paul tracy was in the texas truck race
he finished 20th 3 laps down
max papis was also in the texas truck race
he crashed on lap 17 and finished 29th in the garage
hehe Juan was lets say succesful, but Dario, Jacques ? im looking forward anyway, Mika Salo thats "challenge" :cool:
btw any news about Jacques Villeneuve, what is he going to do next season ? i read few times, he still wanted to go to NASCAR, lack of sponzors will affect more teams than this one most likely though