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Grandstands full of people!!!!!
Amazing
So, after first day of rally, diff between 1st and 2nd will be around 2minutes, If Evans don't mess it up.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
You're acting like it was a solution. It's not even though you might believe it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
I fail to see why it would not be? All current teams have a car + more manufacturers, privateer teams with a reasonalble chance to impress and so many more positives. What is so good about these hybrid creations that would prevent rally2 becoming top class?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
What happened to Lappi, or what is wrong with the car?
He is best Hyundai in the rally and just won a stage, all good :)Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
... just some crash-history to carry from past rallies, probably it makes sense to just reach to the finish somehow.
Just driving safely trough the stages, especially in the morning with horrible conditionsQuote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Because all manufacturers involved consistently said they don't want Rally2 as a top class, the only other cars left are the Citroen an Skoda and neither would get active in works capacity and finally the days of privateers and local heros mixing it with the top drivers are probably past us regardless of the cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by COD
Grönholm was the one and only driver who refused to drive in hot conditions without AC, so they got fitted one in his Peugeot.Quote:
Originally Posted by becher
But simple electrically heated windscreen would be enough.
Or this one, if they could afford it:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Portable-Wi.../dp/B0BJW5328K
Didn't Solberg mention on SS3 that they have heated windscreens or did I mishear that?Quote:
Originally Posted by linni
There are several points.Quote:
Originally Posted by COD
The first thing is that Rally2 simply don't make sense as a marketing tool for the manufacturers. Simply said they are an advert for times that passed. The marketing departments of the manufacturers won't ever permit massive investment into promoting petrol cars.
Second thing is that the true manufacturers don't want that. Why? Because the last thing their public image needs is some privateers beating them.
Third thing is that now the Rally2 cars are quite equal and affordable cars. Once the works teams start to use them as the top class the equality is gone. In one or two years maximum the cars won't be equal anymore. And not only one type to another but also cars from works teams compared to the cars from private ones. The real running cost of a competitive car will rise immediately as well no matter how strict the rules are.
The first point is the most important. WRC must decide whether it will stay as a top tier championship where massive money of the global enterprises are being spent or a sport of hobby drivers. In first case WRC absolutely needs to find a story to promote in the future. That is missing now. Everyone and his dog can see that WRC fails to find a viable concept for its future. Today the WRC only lives from its past and making Rally2 the top class would just underline that.
The other option is to fuck the enterprises and make WRC a sport of private hobby drivers. In that case you have to prepare for money leaving the sport. It means that in a few years live coverage will disappear. Some iconic events will start to disappear because the government support will disappear. The TV coverage will start to disappear etc.
Amen Mirek!
Cool fact about Gronholm and actually makes sense. Normal temp keeps you more focused, sharper and less tired at the end of the days..Quote:
Originally Posted by linni
And yes, even such portable device could have helped. They know the conditions and what could happen.. but yet again foggy windscreens.
Was sleeping at this time, but for some reason WRC2 cars did not have major problems with windscreen misting.Quote:
Originally Posted by becher
I thought all Rally1 and Rally2 cars had heated windscreens.
AFAIK no one has, at least in WRC1. It`s just not a windscreen, it has to contain some relays in a chain which is extra weight. Still stupid decision not to have one. It`s not the first case during the last couple of years.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
That surprises me. I know for sure that Fabia R5/Evo has it (it's manufactured in ACG Teplice factory). Not sure about the new RS ones but I guess they have it too considering they had no issue on the stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by linni
Hmm the weight penalty mjght be small, but from what I've heard the Rally1 cars are very difficult to get towards the minimum weight, so they might start to compromise in silly areas.
i know that rally 1 cars have more temp in duo to hybrid system that rally 2 do not have and in case that outside has low temp then we have this situation.
About Ogier's car and penalty:
Quote:
“During the full inspection of the car back in the technical zone here in service, it was deemed with the FIA that we needed to make a repair to the chassis,” he said.
“There was some damage to the space frame where the FIA required us to exchange a tube – which is a really big job.”
Per, the stage was cancelled because rescue services were hindered by the weather. Had nothing to do with the Rally1s.
I'm not sure if you're all on the same page talking about heated screens. There's a difference between adequate blowers/vents and screens with electric heating elements like my rear screen. As far as I can see the Rally1s don't have sufficient blowers/dispersion of blown air. Doesn't have to be heated or air con, just ambient air will do.
And your top class drivers have left too so you end up with current WRC2 as top class, for one season maybe until the series dies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
More likely the exhaust routing (remember the complaints from co drivers in late 2021/early 2022?) and the tube frame nature of the cars than the motor generator unit.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyros
All current Rally1 and Rally2 cars have heated windscreens. It's not any extra weight as heated/non heated windscreens weight difference is really not relevant. It's also basically 2m of extra wiring needed, so also not extra weight. And power is supplied anyway by power boxes, so no any extra fuses, etc.
All the cars have also quite efficient blowers. But there are certain conditions when those are not efficient enough, with so much water all around, cold outside temps, very warm inside temps, etc.
Sometimes the difference is made by the moment when you close your roof vent, or if the water goes inside by roof vent, etc, etc
First, overall safety regulations from at least two decades back demand to have relay/cutoff in power circuit of the heating of the screens. Not to cause overheating / fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
Second, if you have had heated windscreen on your car once, you cannot justify the misted windscreens of most of the WRC1 drivers from last night. Just cannot happen.
Third, remeber some times ago Ott to mention about lack of any demister. Believe it was during Hyundai times.
Out of the theme, but do you think that there will be another drama tomorrow? Im afraid, that Saturday will become Sunday.. Just cruising trought
Just cruising. No one has motivation, except Mikkelsen :)
After Sordo, Fourmaux will also not restart
https://twitter.com/MSportLtd/status...uTJFZkm6g&s=19
Well, well, maybe Rally1 should stay. But I´m not sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
What I´m definitely sure of is that local drivers never will beat the teams drivers when going in same cars (Rally2). Not even when it´s eight days in a week.
So what was your point in advocating it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
1. In modern Rally1/Rally2 there are no any extra relays, etc. Only master switch. Everything else is managed by power modules (which have kind of software relays/fuses, etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by linni
2. Yes, I have heated windscreen in my car. But I don't have 900degC exhaust temp in my car, also not 50+degC inside in my car and I'm not driving throught the water like rally guys. Also no roof vent, no bonnet openings, etc in my car. And that is all what makes the difference.
3. Depending on weather conditions you install or remove internal heat exchangers but blowers and heated windscreens are always mounted in the Rally1/2 cars.
Maybe linni meant you cannot justify the designs of these cars. It's heavy rain in Japan like most of us have and would still drive through in our cars. These summertime racecars aren't fit for purpose - a fit and healthy WRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
You kind of controversing, having 900 deg C and 50 deg C in the cabin at the same time.Quote:
Originally Posted by br21
But definitely it`s an interesting topic. Needs some further investigation.
Will find out and be back.
Still, have seen temp differences in lots of rally cars in Scandinavian climate, nothing familiar with this.
Yes, that`s the point. You have to be prepared. Like us in here, where winter tires are mandatory during winter time and you just do not go out on summer tires.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
When it's dry then temperature difference is not that problematic.
When the conditions are like in Japan now you have many different things happening at the same time - just pouring water on red hot exhaust manifold creates loads of mist and humidity, etc.
And if it happens in all 3 cars then you know it's not so simple - of course it shouldn't happen but it happens and because of other reason than just stupid lack of heated windscreen and blower...
Listen to br21, he knows.Quote:
Originally Posted by linni
Please follow this small example.
It's cold outside and it's raining.
You have a road car with internalvolume 2 m3. There is 22°C inside. You come inside completely wet and the water starts to evaporate. The maximum amount of water the 2 m3 of air at 22°C can take is 38 gramms. The rest stays in the form of liquid in the clothes or on the floor.
Now you have a second car with the same internal volume but the inner temperature is 50°C. Again you bring some water inside on your clothes and shoes. The maximum amount of water which can evaporate in 2 m3 of air is now 164 gramms. So your air in the car now contains 4,3x more water.
Where the air hits the cold glass it cools itself and the water condenses because the colder the air is, the lesser amount of water it can take. If you have the same heated windsreen which is capable to heat the screen to let's say 30°C average you have no misting in the road car but you still have big misting problem in the other one (the air at 30°C can take only 37% of water compared to the air at 50°C) and due to the fact that the inner humidity is already 100% the blowers don't work.
So the resume is that you have to either heat the windscreen to higher temperature than what the ambient temperature inside the car is. Or you need to bring less water inside (may not be possible), or you need to lower the humidity (not possible without A/C). Or you need to somehow cool down the temperature inside the car. If you have very high temperature drop between the inside and the outside, heating the screen enough might not be possible, so you need to let as much air from the outside to get in because the air from the outside even if it's wet, will still help because it's much colder but the amount of air you can let in is very limited by the vents. You can't drive on stage with opened windows because it's forbidden. After all you might end in a situation where nothing helps.
When temperature is bellow zero the air humidity is usually low and you don't bring plenty of water inside the car in your clothes.Quote:
Originally Posted by linni
This forum is insane. 20 pages of demister chat and I'm just spending my Friday afternoon refreshing the page to see if anything got added. Well done lads.
This discussion seems more interesting than rally itself :)Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan