It was announced earlier that Hyundai 2C Team won’t continue (with Rally1 cars)
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It was announced earlier that Hyundai 2C Team won’t continue (with Rally1 cars)
Who do they have in mind for the old people category? Have Skoda re-signed Stig Blomqvist again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Andre Oliveira
For example Mauro Miele, Paulo Nobre, Armin Kremer and Enrico Brazzoli started in WRC2/3 last year. But I don't understand the need for this category.
Hyundai are desperate with the crazy timescale for 2022 so Fowler could probably name his price.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
FIA understand that young people have no money. The Silver Cup subsidises the Avocado on Toast Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Why do you think Hyundai is desperate? It seems, that it's Dirtfish which is much more desperate making so many suggestions and personal marketing for certain people...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Maybe N.O.T as substitute for Mr. Noh?
Dirtfish is starting to lose it... Ok, it's a slow news period, but instead of rumor mongering maybe do some actual reporting? For example, Autosport International has been postponed. Get the scoop on that and do some reportage on how it affects the rallying world... But, I'd guess throwing names and dumb votes (who the hell greenlighted Octavia as best WRC in history?) is easier than actual journalism...🤷
Sadly they never had it.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
How can they get the scoop on an event being organised by another motorsport media company that the chief editor walked out on? They're a Rally School branched out to web media with good contacts in the service park, playing their part and balancing their position in the WRC PR game with what we can be honest, is approved or obvious news. This ain't politics, it's PR. After about 5 pieces of 'actual journalism' an 'actual journalist' will run out of actual sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
We're here at the same point again where a member of MotorsportForums attacks anybody doing anything instead of doing something themselves.
Autosport International was just an example. There are quite a few more legitimate reportages they could have pushed on (ie sending someone to cover M Sport's Arctic test or having info from today's Hyundai one), instead of connecting everyone and their mother with the Hyundai principal job or green lighting a clearly manipulated vote.
Just my 2 cents. Don't really have any beef with Dirtfish, but they seem to set themselves up as the premiere destination for rally news. Useless gossip ain't needed.
Even if this story was true, one can't imagine he'd even be allowed to start there for at least 6 months....Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
I think WRC3 Junior = exJWRC.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan
We have started with idea of senior category in ERC few years ago (with slightly different rules). But it was refused by FIA...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I never said it was even likely. Why leave to join a team you just beat.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
When questioned on the timing, one source told DirtFish earlier this week: “Yesterday. That’s when it needed to be done. In fact, a week yesterday.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gonek
“It’s almost 10 days already and no movement on this is bad. This is a crucial time for the team and a time when the team needs leadership.”
Yes, that's clear but the wrong way to go IMO when you compare it to WRC2 Junior. No consistency, a 25yr old in WRC2 is a Junior. A 25yr old in WRC3 might be a Junior, it depends on whether s/he paid the dues and did 5 specific rounds. Try explaining to the kids if an unofficial Junior wins the open class. Messy.Quote:
Originally Posted by PLuto
Also what happened to the Rookie cups?
Lol!!Quote:
Originally Posted by macebig
The question is, how well placed is that source? How well informed?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
The way I see it, the team needs to get its house in order after a couple of years of Adamo. You don't do something like that overnight. He was running everything there, they'll need a couple of people to do what he was doing all by himself, which won't be easy.
It doesn't even need a great source, its a blatant fact that this change couldn't have had worse timing. Their Rally1 development programme was already running late, and then the test car was destroyed.Quote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
It's not ideal but everyone else is still there though. Plans/schedules will have already been mapped out as has been seen by the testing ALL last week and continuing into this week. Adamo leaving hasn't left the team in the lurch, there's a lot of capable people who can keep the testing and development etc going.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Reckon they will have someone new in place before their next batch of testing after new year (which will already have been planned for). Adamo was just one man - not everything has just descended into chaos because he has left.
I bet there are a LOT of things that have been improved since he left... Notably morale, decision-making processes, and psycho-factor...Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Precisely. It's an opportunity for a team that looked rather lost at times in 2021, and didn't always cover itself in glory with its decision making, to refresh, recharge, and go into 2022 with a positive outlook.
If not now, when? At least they've had a few working weeks to steady the ship, and make plans for early 2022. This would have been far worse if it had happened over the winter break, or in the lead up to Monte.
Guys, one confusion:
As they have merged WRC 2 and WRC 3 I thought they mixed the rules in the easiest way, but I can not understand some bits. My understanding was that they are doing WRC 2 (OPEN, so for all in case of drivers/co-drivers) plus WRC 2 Junior, Master Cup and Teams. But:
6.2.1 In order to score points in the WRC2 Championship for
Teams supported by a Manufacturer or independent, Drivers,
Co-Drivers, Junior, Master and Teams must register with the
FIA before the closing date of entries of the first rally entered.
Registration in the WRC2 Championships is set at €100,000
for teams with the Manufacturer name in the title or €10,000
for an independent team. Any manufacturer registered as per
Art. 5.2 does not need to pay the individual WRC2 Championship fee for Manufacturers. Registration for the WRC2 Open
Championship, set at €3,000, must be made in the name
of a driver holding a current and valid competitor’s licence.
After this (and last year WRC 3) I would understand that we will have one WRC 2 champion for Drivers, regardless he will be entered as a Team or himself (Mikkelsen could be as Toksport (10k euro) or as Andreas Mikkelsen (3k euro)
and now:
6.4.1 (partly).... Points scored in the Support Championships shall
always be in the name of the team, driver and co-driver.
6.4.3 The WRC2 Champion titles for Drivers, Co-Drivers and Juniors
will be awarded to the driver and co-driver who have scored
the highest number of points from 6 of the 7 rallies in which
they were entered by a team registered in the WRC2 Championship and nominated to score points.
So to win drivers championship Mikkelsen should paid 10k euro (to be a team) + 3k euro (for WRC 2 Open) or it is a mistake? This paragraph is not marked in green, so they've just made copy/paste...
But to be classified as a team, you should enter 2 cars. So driver needs register team and pay 10k euro, but the team will not be allowed to score points for itself unless it has 2 cars...
I understand it this way:
- Skoda registers as manufacturer team in WRC2, 100 000 euros
- Toksport registers as independent team in WRC2, 10 000 euros
- Mikkelsen registers as a driver in WRC2 Open, 3000 euros
It's a different thing if you want to drive in WRC2 but you are not in a team. Basically you have to put up your own team for this purpose, and pay that 10 000 entry fee. Otherwise you can only do a non-priority start in a Rally2 car in a WRC event.
Right now it seems there's no manufacturers that would register for WRC2 manufacturer but is not a Rally1 manufacturer. Skoda did this in 2019 but after that Skodas have been run through Toksport. Also Citroens are run through private teams only. Hyundai and M-Sport are manufacturers for Rally1 cars, so they don't have to pay separate manufacturer entry fee for WRC2.
So they merged both championship and now forced majority of guys to create "team" and pay 13k to be a WRC2 driver's champion (Team 10k + 3k for Open). Moreover you will need create a team, pay for that and the team won't be visible in table.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Untill last year it was let's say fair a bit, cause WRC2 was mainly for Teams. But now it should be closer to WRC 3 or a bit balanced at least.
I am still thinking it is a mistake, but let's wait. Chris Ingram seems to be entered to Monte as Chris Ingram... so? If you are right, he will not be able to get points :) For guys like him, Kajetanowicz, Lindholm etc, promotion from WRC 3 to WRC 2 would mean over 400% increase in registration cost...
IMHO a trully good manager creates his team in way that it's able to work as usual without him being present.Quote:
Originally Posted by er88
Personally, I think 6.4.3 is a mistake and will be updated soon.
So, let’s change over to Rally3 cars then? :DQuote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
It is not mistake...Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom K
You still understand it wrong. If Toksport pays the 10 000 entry fee, they can use that to run many drivers. It's not up to the drivers to pay that entry fee unless there's absolutely no other vacancies in other teams. And even in that case you could ask a friend to join you in your "team" to split that expense.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom K
It's also an attraction for teams. "Rent a Rally2 car from us, we are one of the few teams in WRC2 this season".
I think Chris Ingram is driving for Toksport this year and the Montre entry list had lots of errors.
Difficult to say what a guy like Kajetanowicz would do. He probably has been in his private team for a long time, but will he enter that now?
It's another question how much motivation there is for guys who fought for WRC3 title but were typically P3-P6 in RC2, since now they will be against the WRC2 top guys. Maybe they are now more interested in ERC instead?
Finally, I might be wrong but this is how I have interpreted the rules.
Sounds like he would want to drop Rally1 and change to Rally2 (+). That didn't seem popular with manus either. It like is particularly hard for new manus to enter against those with massive R5 experience and be competetive.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
IMO there's only one way to go for the top class. Full electric 3 years from now.
Anyway interesting that he starts off on the job by calling MSport openly for what they are.
You really don't like M-Sport, do you? :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Why do you think that? MSport is a great private business with some great results and very good at developing new driversQuote:
Originally Posted by ouvreur
(Fourmaux, Evans, Tanak etc, even though it not always works out (Camilli)).
MSport is not a (manu) team doing everything for win (as quoted by Suninen). The only thing I don't like about them is when their PR pretends something else.
Antti, with all due respect...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I know what are or were rules in WRC 2 when it was mainly for Teams. They merged championships where we had 6-10 cars (WRC 2) and 15-23 cars (WRC 3) so I do not know why you look at rules only through the prism of the strongest team.
1) the rules does not clarify if Toksport can enter more than 2 cars per event: "must enter and start with two (2) cars". Maybe they could rotate, Mikkelsen + Ingram in Monte, Mikkelsen + Gryazin in Sweden etc, but I do not see it possible...
2) Toksport will pay this 10k euro and can split it between drivers. But the rule says now: "In order to score points in the WRC2 Championship for
Teams supported by a Manufacturer or independent, Drivers,
Co-Drivers, Junior, Master and Teams must register with the
FIA before the closing date of entries of the first rally entered.
Registration in the WRC2 Championships is set at €100,000
for teams with the Manufacturer name in the title or €10,000
for an independent team. Any manufacturer registered as per
Art. 5.2 does not need to pay the individual WRC2 Championship fee for Manufacturers. Registration for the WRC2 Open
Championship, set at €3,000, must be made in the name
of a driver holding a current and valid competitor’s licence
Co-drivers are not required to register"
So if you are right, Toksport will pay entry fee for Teams, but still Mikkelsen, Bulacia, Ingram or any other need to pay 3k euro for WRC 2 Open. If you think they don't need to pay 3k euro, tell me for who these 3k euro are.
3) "And even in that case you could ask a friend to join you in your "team" to split that expense." - I will treat it like o joke, cause we are talking about World Rally Championship, not amateur rally where you can ask your friend "let's take one bigger lorry, transport will be cheaper per car".
How would they do that? They are rivals and will make one team? "Friendzone Rally Team":) If they have big sponsors, both of them would like to put it into name of the team.
It could work only in pairing like Gryazin - Brazzoli. One was top, and second was gentleman driver...
4) I do not think guys from P3-P6 in RC2 should be send to ERC... Ingram (1x champion) and Kajetanowicz (3x) for sure will be interested in going to ERC again... And being P3-P6 in RC2 it's not that bad.
Let me clarify - I do not know if it is mistake or not (like Pluto said) and you are right. But if you are, please don't tell me it's OK, because Toksport can this or that...
6.2.2 Teams must enter 2 cars to score points. Or, 6.2.3 If they don't want teams points (or with the co/drivers don't want points) they can enter 1 car.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
This doesn't allow a team to enter 3+ cars??? With Mikkelsen and Gryazin the Toksport team in Monte, Ingram must have entered himself, no (regardless whose car it is)?
Thinking about this for past while, I'm clear now there is no mistake in the rule book, this mess is probably designed to sway privateers to WRC3 or ERC.
Every driver pays the registration fees now, that's the change to last year. The 'Open' does not mean it's an 'open' championship at all, that just a name that separates those who are not juniors and masters. But,
Rule 6.4.3 says Open and Junior Drivers won't score championship points unless they were entered by a Team. So presumably you can enter without being in a team if you don't care about the championship, I presume Chris Ingram knows this (see my previous post). Rule 6.4.4 says Masters can enter without being in a team and score in their championship. Fantastic example of equality and consistency.
I put this to you to correct. If I am right, also add in the WRC3 Junior farce, I sincerely wish Becs, Julian, etc and the social media teams the best for next year. Colossal f*ck up.
Maybe i'm wrong, but i think a team must enter 2 car to score points, but can also enter more than 2, provided that is paying the driver entry fee.Quote:
Originally Posted by WRCStan