That means they're around 4 months behind M-Sport who had their Rally1 Puma testing in July.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
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That means they're around 4 months behind M-Sport who had their Rally1 Puma testing in July.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
If you believe everything that adamo says, then yes
What else have you got to go on ?Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
We know for a fact they are behind due to the delay in getting the Hyundai bosses go-ahead for 2022.
Plus look at their car on the latest test.
And Dirtfish:
Let’s look to the future and to 2022. It’s increasingly common knowledge in the service park that Hyundai is a long way behind M-Sport Ford and Toyota. That’s not rocket science, we all saw how much later Hyundai’s 2022 test mule broke cover. The LWB Fiesta was moving just into March. The i20 turned a wheel in May.
Mmmm..........Quote:
Originally Posted by Fast Eddie WRC
Was it Adamo that said that...........
I would claim that in the opposite end of the spectrum, M-Sport deliberately wanted to be first to get the car out running in the public. But all teams can do secret testing as well, it's not everytime that testing occurs that we get footage.
Yes, as Adamo himself commented "some of our competitors are very busy showing the car on social media".
Meaning primarily MSport.
Ever since Goodwood and a bit before their social media are basically only about the new car. This is likely due to a mix of these reasons:
- Not much to show for with current car/drivers
- PR for Ford
- PR for attracting sponsors
But again, as repeated multiple times it boggles my mind how Ford can be satisfied in putting any money into this if they show up in January with (Breen), Fourmaux and Greensmith combination....
whaat should they do then? I'm pretty sure Ford knows the situation very well and maybe is ok with it.
Didn't get any current top driver, then didn't. Fourmaux is their young hope(good deal, moneywise) and I'm sure he can fight for podiums next season.
M-Sport tested their car first in public and shows it quite often to people. PR works.
If they really had money for the likes of Tanak and Neuville they could likely get all of Breen+Lappi+Mikkelsen (and Fourmaux in 4th car) for the same ammount.
I like Fourmaux, but some of the hype around him is approaching Solberg levels. You know that in his (so far very short) career he only won ONE international rally (Canarias 2020 with rain/tire lottery) in his clas. (Trying) to win last stage(s) before PS when everyone is cruising is good PR, but doesn't show that much. Sure he can be good in the future.
Anyway, off topic.
Neuville on it again
Thierry Neuville expects the World Rally Championship’s new 2022 Rally1 hybrid cars will require a different driving style, labelling the experience as “Formula E driving on a rally road”.
When asked for his feedback on driving the Rally1 car in a media briefing ahead of this weekend’s Rally Spain, Neuville said: “It is Formula E driving on a rally road.
“It is very early to say how it is going to be. Many things are not working yet as they should be with the hybrid system, to get real feedback is very difficult.
“For me so far, it is going to be a change [of driving style].
“The target is that you need to recover energy under braking to be able to discharge the [hybrid power] in acceleration. If you don’t reach the target under braking, you can’t have additional power on the exit, which makes the whole thing inconsistent and unpredictable.
https://www.autosport.com/wrc/news/n...mpression=true
He really doesn’t like them does he!
More like LMP1/LMH rally version.. xD
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Tänak said the same in newspaper article couple of days ago.
https://sport.postimees.ee/7360866/o...-olen-pettunud
I wonder if Neuville is finding the 2022 change hardest as he's so unused to it. He's basically been in an i20 WRC since 2014 while everyone else has been swapping teams/cars several times in that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by doubled1978
Is it worth the whole article?Quote:
Originally Posted by Oliverk
Don't be silly, no. A couple of vague sentences and basically says the new cars are heavier and slower, and agrees with Mäkinen's criticism.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
maybe Hyundai is having problems and is behind after all..
Talking now doesn't change anything anymore.
Can the teams paint each car with different colors? I mean, its was cool to see a green/white Toyota haha
All the 3 cars from each team have the same colors, its so boring IMO
They could please more sponsors with diferent cars, no?
It's me who made the question about his feedback, as well as to other WRC drivers. Tomorrow we will post an article with all their answers, hope you enjoy itQuote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
https://www.wrcwings.tech/2021/10/18...2-hybrid-cars/Quote:
Originally Posted by lluisva555
Excellent job!
more power and more sideways hopefully
Thank you very much, I thought it would be interesting to have their opinion... at least as much as secrecy allows...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
With such complicated new cars i fear we may see complete dominance from one team.
At the start of the current car era engineers (thing it was people from MSport) predicted how they will develop rather well.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
a) people will copy each others cars - this was mostly in aero terms
b) finetuning the setup for every stage/road
This b) was what made MSport irrelevant lately cause they didn't have money for all that testing.
With new car it shouldn't be possible to finetune as much (no center diff, simpler front/rear ones).
So while there might be bigger gaps between the cars at first, it is less likely tons of money will matter as much later on.
I fear we could see a case like f1 in 2014 and 15, when mercedes won 16 out of 19 races. Or even like 2016 when they won 19 out of 21. Even hundered of millions couldn't fix that.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
We loose some old technology that the teams have mastered, but we get the whole unknown hybrid system. Unlike aero, this can't copied easily.
I've said this before, it's all unknown. Everyone makes new cars. In 2017 we didn't know what to expect. Everyone thought Citroen is the best and Toyota the worst, but it turned out exactly opposite, and with very small margins, with four first rallies won by different cars. I can only hope the same happens now. It seems M-Sport has advanced the most while Hyundai is struggling, with rumors of a big rebuild after the first public tests, and the worried comments of Tänak and Neuville seem to confirm that rumor.
But the hybrid system is the same for everyone...and engines are the same as in the current WRC cars.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Yes, the cars are much more bound by the rules than those of today and they will be even more similar to each other.
I would personally welcome much more technical freedom. IMHO it's not going against efforts to cut cost (which is questionable anyway). For me it takes much more time and money to make one same thing better than the other than to come with some new ideas others didn't try. Moreover it makes thingsmuch more intweresting and exciting for me (I understand that not for everyone).
but the main issue will be to get the 2 working together well i believe. making it predictable and working well may take many tests and thus lots of money.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
that's what neuville is complaining about, it being unpredictable.
With all this talk about how the Rally1-cars are like the Rally2-cars but with more power, a bit more aero and the hybrid-element...
Wouldn't it make more sense in the long term for the teams to have the developing drivers do more time driving Rally2? No center-diff or active diffs, less aero, 5-speed with stick... Especially Oliver Solberg, but also Katsuta.
The young drivers might also, in the long term, be a better choice due to how easy or hard it might be to cope with how to use the hybrid-system. Sordo, due to his age, might not clic that fast despite his experience. But I might be wrong.
Yes, especially for Solberg it didn't make much sense to "learn" the current WRC cars. However for Katsuta, I think the problem is that they don't have Toyota's Rally2 car...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mackie
Seems the Hyundai Rally1 really is still far behind the others.
The drivers are struggling with their hybrid system, plus they havent even got the test car with its new body and full aero fitted which will still need testing.
Huge work to do to he ready for Monte Carlo 2022, never mind testing it enough to be reliable ... tick, tock.
Oliver is probably the one that has tested the hybrid the most from what i heard, so he will be fineQuote:
Originally Posted by Mackie
His point was that it might have been better to drive Rally2 than to "waste time" learning current WRCs that don't have much common with new cars.
I agree with that. Especially if it's only for an event or two, like that whole tarmac session (test+Alba+test+Spain).
In case you haven't looked at Dirt Fish, today. They have a report on Sebastien Loeb testing the Ford Puma in Spain on Tuesday: https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/loeb-...puma-in-spain/ EDIT: See WRC Testing thread for pix
Yes, I think he will take to that system just fine. It's the other parts of the car that I think he would have gained more from driving the R5/Rally2 some more.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
Solans on driving current WRC car:
(from https://dirtfish.com/rally/wrc/how-a...his-wrc-debut/ )
"This however was not the hardest thing for Solans to adapt to. He believed finding the correct set-up – with so many diff maps, damper clicks and so on available – “was quite difficult”.
“It takes a lot of time, a lot of stages, a lot of new tries every service,” he said."
There was a nice article from Anthony Warmbold on his blog about the alchemy of the active diffs and how easy it was to fuck it up. Good read for people who don't know :)Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
http://wrcbehindthestages.blogspot.c...ravaganza.html
I was reading the following from CAR.
"The new car doesn’t share much in common with the Puma road car, however. The new Rally1 rules mean that, for the first time, very few parts of the bodyshell need to be shared with the production car. Only the bonnet, windscreen, tailgate and roofskin need to be carried over, allowing a great deal of freedom with the car’s structure and aerodynamics.
‘The biggest thing [for this project] is that we’re not using a production-based bodyshell,’ says M-Sport director (and former professional rally driver) Malcolm Wilson. ‘We’re usually starting with cutting sheet metal. It’s exciting.’
Part of the reason for moving away from production-based bodyshells is to enable greater safety for the driver and co-driver: the seats have been moved inwards and there is extra protection built into the cockpit’s structure to protect against side impacts."
So this will be the 1st time after Group B that the bodyshell will not be gotten from an actual production car?
This is the reason that this Puma is so much more elegant and compact than the production one.
But is this choice more expensive than to use a bodyshell from an actual production car?
Yes, the cars use space frame and no, it's not more expensive. In my opinion it is actually much better option for the teams because they can do what they want without asking modifications of stock production which is incredibly expensive and time consuming process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Yugo_para_siempre
Another reason why it is a very good thing is that there is less and less suitable stock cars for building a rally car. With the new rules every car manufacturer is allowed to build a WRC car no matter what it sells.