Tiger Woods son is a pretty good driver also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Printable View
Tiger Woods son is a pretty good driver also.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
"Son thing" wasn´t what the debate started about.
It was those NOT having money but showed talent. Those guys who never made it because lack of funding for their ambitions.
Son thing still interesting subject...
Was Tommi Makinen son of Tommy Makinen? (yes, I know the answer...)
It is an interesting subject indeed. But this "son thing" doesn't always work. Anton Alen, Alessandro Bettega, Matthew Wilson and Luca Tabaton haven't achieved much.
We could also speculate about drivers who didn't have a financial backer like family or manager behind them. Like we know that Kankkunen, Mäkinen et al. were backed by Jouhki. But Grönholm didn't have anyone or anything like that. Obviously people helped him, but it was more about helping through work or sharing contacts to Toyota for example, instead of someone investing lots of money. They were always on the edge, if the Celica had burned, his career would have ended.
M-Sport
@MSportLtd
Pleased to welcome TM Competition to the M-Sport Family. The French team will fight for top results with two EcoBoost-powered Ford Fiesta Rally2 next year; one for @gilbert_quentin
in the French Tarmac Championship and one for @StephaneConsani
in the French Gravel Championship
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Epwg8WZX...jpg&name=large
So this post should be more in French championship thread than here...Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I almost got excited...and then noticed it's only for French championships.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Wales Rally GB investigation and interviews incl. David Richards:
https://www.bbc.com/sport/amp/motorsport/55386068
No, but they had the opportunities - but they simply weren't quick enough. I don't have a problem with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarek Z
Talent alone isn't enough, and never really was. It's a combination of talent, connections, money/sponsors - and even a bit of luck; in the right place at the right time.
I look at Blomqvist & Sainz; both World Champions who had sons who've followed them into motorsport - but not rallying; you've got more options circuit racing if your seat goes. Tom has done F3, DTM, GTs, and now a seat in Formula E.
Sainz Jr said that later goes to Rally.
Also Lundgaard's son. He is also in F2 and had won a couple of raced this year. I think making the transition from karting to circuit racing is easier because you can continue your career for more years. In rallying, you either exploit the driving age like Rovanpera or Solberg or you'll have to be on karting until you are 17.Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Finnish winter WRC round possible only in Rovaniemi. Fingers crossed
https://yle.fi/urheilu/3-11710167
Son-of but not of the same level at all. His dad was an amateur driver in national events and got him interested in rally. But he only helped financially with his very first cheap rally car and taking him to events.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
After that Chris has won (junior) factory drives, prize-money & captured sponsors with his talent alone, to continue in the sport.
With this new overlap rule, the starting time of the first car between two special stages should be at least 45min then?Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I don’t like these new rules at all. It’s once again a step (or final step) that every wrc interary looks the same (2x2 / 2x3 / 2x4 format).
Is it allowed to have more than one “midday service”?
Yes I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by bearclaw
Finland 2020 also had Kakaristo and Arvaja starting within 38 minutes of each other.
It's quite clear the new rules are demands of the All Live team.
You want to see a lot of WRC2/WRC3 entries but to not have enough time to show time? :)
Yep, and it makes sense for AllLive. I had always thought that part the reason they compressed the start times of the stages on a loop was to prevent spectator movements between stages. Spectators driving like lunatics on public roads to stage hop was a big issue on Rally GB in the past, I was one of them. These days it’s much more difficult, and being old and slow, far less appealing!Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
In last 15 years we have repeatedly seen that if you have money and/or the right motorsport background and start early it is almost guaranteed to get to somewhere around 5-6th place in WRC cars. (Matt Wilson stopped here, Novikov also comes to mind, Greensmith and Katsuta here atm).
But then the number of drivers improving on that drops drastically.
The first very difficult step is being able to fight for podiums on pace. (Rovanpera is somewhere around here now, Suninen also)
Afterwards another huge step is fighting for rally wins ( Mikkelsen here atm) and the next is having real shot at championship (Latvala finished somewhere just short of this, Hirvonen finished here).
All the listed driver names have had some of these advantages. But interestingly none of the champions since 2000 or so fall in this category imo.
Is it really so? It didn't work for Anton Alen, Matt Wilson, Alessandro Bettega, Luca Tabaton, Evgeni Novikov, Antony Warmbold, Conrad Rautenbach... Hell! Even Nasser Al-Attiyah and Kimi Raikkonen, I don't think anybody can question their motorsport background and financial possibilities, also didn't make it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Wilson, Novikov and partly Warmbold qualify for that (5-6 place)they are also listed in my post. Note the emphasis ... starting early and having money or family.
Al Attiyah and Raikkonen don't qualify for starting early. Out of the others I only ever noticed Rautenbach.
the main problem of rich kids and sons off is that they hire the best teams, hire the best trainers, have the most test days, drive the most rallies, ...
because of that, they can seen to be more talented then they are, since they come up against others that have to do with little resources. other drivers who might be more talented but don't have the connections or money, drivers who have almost no testing and no-one to tell them what to do.
but once you get into the very top of the sport, you suddenly don't have that advantage anymore. then you're up against other on an equal level, and it's down to raw talent. and that little lack that they have managed to compensate through experience throughout their career, now can't be compensated anymore.
that is why loeb was so successful, that is why ogier is so successful, that is why tanak and neuville are so successful. they didn't pay their way up, they beat their opponents everywhere and every time on equal terms.
they just were the very best from the beginning of their career.
agree at every line at your post,but specially with the quote.Very well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Mikkelsen talks about much travel in 2021.
Could it be he will take on the US series as well as WRC?
Truck driver maybe?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Yes, but it also involves some luck, not having your own rally car burned beyond repair or not making a contract with a team who calls it quits or does not have a competitive car.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
Did Ogier ever have FFSA support?
Tänak also came from a motorsport family, so at least he was used to seeing and being around rally cars when he was young and his father was helping, although not able to help financially like Rovanperä and Solberg.
Yes. Of course...Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Was just about to say the same. I generally agree what he writes but at a lot of carrier points there is a lot of luck and other circumstances involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
Especially when it comes to teams/cars.
Say Atkinson joining Subaru just as their started decline. Tanak getting hired back for 2nd chance in 2014, what if there was another driver to pick? He was by far not obvious choice. (Or what if something else happened like when VW quit and cost Camilli any chance to drive at MSport for 2017?).Huttunen got a perfect start lined up to WRC by winning the Hyundai contest and got the 2018 i20 R5 that was breaking all the time and was not fast..now when he comes back he might get jumped by Solberg.
https://itgetsfasternow.com/2020/12/...ules-for-2021/
More thoughts about those new special stage rules
I’m not sure how to link it as it’s in an app, but there is a superb short video exploring Rally GB and if it will go back to Wales or not.
I’ve found it on the BBC sport app (under motorsport) and it’s by a lady called Jade Paveley.
Lights a lot of emotion seeing the cinematic shots of beautiful Wales and a few stages.
Proper job - incredibly well done.
Dirt fish need to sign her up and get rid of that complete clown, Clarke.
Sorry I can’t post a link - please go look it up.
Pretty good, you can really sense her passion for rallying and particularly in Wales.Quote:
Originally Posted by the sniper
In honesty, I actually like the idea of it rotating every three years between Wales/N.Ireland/Scotland as it will bring a sense of adventure back a bit, and stop it going stale by visiting the same stages every year.
The rotation thing is good in theory, but in practice it's difficult when you cannot have permanent staff or make agreements on stage usages, sponsorships, hospitalities etc. for more than one year at a time. Although on a certain level they could use the same staff organizing the rally in various parts of the country, but still it will be more difficult and more expensive.
https://www.rallit.fi/pahalta-naytta...wrc-sopimusta/
Jouhki saying Suninen is probably out of seat next year
To be honest, in the UK this would probably work. The organisational team would just be Motorsport UK regardless of where it was. The Clerk of the Course Ian Campbell is Scottish, lives in the Scottish Highlands and was Clerk of the Course on the IRC Rally of Scotland. Regarding stage usage and sponsorship, in terms of the latter, the only significant sponsor of Rally GB are regional Government. They'd have to have three Local Government deals, but once they're set up, there isn't much more ongoing work that needs to be done. That's if they can be established... With stage usage, MSUK liaises with Natural Resources Wales and Forestry and Land Scotland over all stage usage for rallies anyway and with Rally GB, they essentially start the process over each year anyway regarding what will be available. In Northern Ireland it'd be a different process, but not too different and they now have some internal experience of closed road stages.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
That’s interesting. So who would drive for them then? Gus and? I can’t think of anybody else apart from Mikkelsen.Quote:
Originally Posted by AnttiL
I think Formaux manager said he will be in rally2?
I think that like Solberg, it is also good for Formaux to continue in WRC2 next season.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Formaux showed really good pace and improvement on last rallies.. some events with WRC would be good, but whole season could burn the budget(IF some bad luck and lack of pace)..
At this point it can be anyone with a budget that is not hopeless...for example Gryazin, or even worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
I also agree that it is not so good idea for Fourmaux at the moment, but he is most likely to join Greensmith on the team.
A blackhorse could be Huttunen for free, but not sure if he is ready to leave Hyundai at this point.
But he is in very bad position, can't drive WRC3 and not in WRC2 by Hyundai. Maybe Hyundai can dig out a "private" second team like Citroen is doing with PH Sport and Sainteloc.
The article suggests Fourmaux and Greensmith.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
https://twitter.com/TeemuSuninenRac/...43452342145025
Suninen saying thanks to his supporters during his career until today...
Shame, but it really does look like a treading water year for Msport similar to previous regulation changes. But if it means they can develop a competitive car for 22 as they have before, then I guess it’s a price worth paying.
I’m sure Formaux will show some good stage times, and maybe a good result here and there as he is clearly fast.