Where and when is P2 test?
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Where and when is P2 test?
Hello friend, this is John's friend Albert, I'm planning to rent a little car and head up late Friday night, and be ready Saturday morning. Tell me where to be, I will have refreshments and many good stories about mr. Vanlandingham
We come back to you in time. No worry. Will be really nice to meet up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustyvolvo
Hayden Paddon*@HaydenPaddon
Final run through the pacenotes on the plane to Finland Super excited and ready for the best rally of the year @RallyFinland #paddonspack
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFcgOyAXkAEJ-Fh.jpg
Does anyone know if it's possible to drive into this area by the green dot on Äänekoski?
Quite a lot of people for being so far from P5 parking
And has anyone found a Laukaa onboard from 2011?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rustyvolvo
Wait a minute! You're Volvo ain't rusty....poor thing has suffered in other ways but rust?
Al you better take some detail shots of the rear suspension on some of those BMWs cause everybody here is breaking them and those F-cup guys drive faster and harder than Pastrami and Iggins do here, so we gotta see what they're doing to survive...
I'd also like some footage from 2011 Laukaa, I don't understand how there's nothing on Youtube from that stage other than Matti Rantanen's crashQuote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
This is from Halinen, right after the big jump. The chicanes were well visible on the official recce videos. There's about 2-3 per stage, some are made using ternary junctions with a triangle of land in the middle and going around it, some are made like on the sign in the pic, with a hay bale on a side junction.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
M-Sport*@MSportLtd
3 DAYS TO GO Remember this genius @RallyFinland fix? In 2015, @ElfynEvans used a @Snapon_Tools spanner to hold his broken suspension! #WRC
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFgp7hbW0AEUsYd.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFgp7haW0AAdXfg.jpg
This one gives you a little bit better perspective than the organizer recce video at leastQuote:
Originally Posted by mufcAleksi
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u438jqZQ5kw&t=440s
http://www.nesterallyfinland.fi/site...raries_fix.pdf
Fixed stage closing times.
(Sorry, I don´t know which have changed)
So this is even before start of the recce and they are watching vids of stages and doing pacenotes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Then it's 2? runs in recce with video review each evening.
During the rally they then watch the stages for next day each evening, at one point last year I even saw some drivers watching on mobile before the stage.
Also big sections of the stages are run each year.
Given that each day there are about 40-50 unique stage kilometers it's totally possible to remember just about every corner, or at minimum the tricky spots where you really should not go off. (Often also in notes (don't go wide, don't cut....)
This is nothing new, I just put it here since the topic comes up again and again.
Ref.
- Ogier's off in Monte on Saturday saying he knew he could go off there (and people not believing)
- Breen's stage time in Corsica on the short stage without intercom (he lost only a few s)
- multiple "safe" offs by numerous drivers in Poland
so you think that Ogier(or whatever driver) knew that at that corner, he could push more due to have space for error,and he knew that with this overdrive when he went out of road for 20-30 meters it was something calculated.he knew that he can go 30 meters out of road and not 15 meters with this overdrive.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Are you serious?
Hi new to the forum and my first visit to finland. Can anyone tell me if we can walk on the stages before the first car to find a suitable place to watch or are you restricted to the spectator areas?
Thanks
i think he is..Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Sorry but your post is not very coherent. I will just restate my view:Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
To take that specific corner in Monte he knew that the series of corners was in the open field without any deep trenches or drops and without a lot of trees on the outside, which is why he pushed just a bit more (= too much at that point). Nothing about meters here or there, just knowing where it's better to be a bit more on the safe side and where you can risk a bit. (EDIT: Maybe I now get what you ask about, obviously when there is open flat field, it doesn't matter if you go off by 15 or 30 meters, it's the information that it's less risky to go off. For comparison going off in Germany in a place with Hinkelsteins is certainly not "safe", neither is going off in Monte on a stage with 30m drop on the outside of the road)
That's something I am 100% sure off, Ogier himself said it in the finish of the stage. In addition to what I wrote about videos Ogier also comes from the area.
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Obviously it's not like drivers can remember every rock of every stage (specially on rallies like Sardinia), but remembering the main characteristics of parts of stages+risky spots. Btw. note also the stage reviews with WRC drivers on the official videos, it's not like they are reading it from a piece of paper.
Anyone who has watched 2-3 onboards from the same stage on WRC+ will remember quite a lot of the characteristics next time he watches. Note that we do it for fun over a few tens of minutes in our freetime. Professional rally drivers earn their living from fast driving, watching the stage vids to remember them is one of the easiest preparations they can do and is not limited by any testing limits or funding issues.
Pretty sure that's exactly what he said, he knew it was a big field there ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Philjakoski will catch a few people out this year, some sections are easy to get wrong in this direction, just a shame they made it so hard to get into this year.
So why don´t we discuss this and other matters on "The live Bar and Talk Discussion" session on Paviljonki Sokos Hotel Paviljonki on Thursday at 15.00 hours?? I promise I´ll be there. Maybe some of my Finnish, Norwegian and Swedish friends as well. Belgians, Greeks, French, German, whatever - just be square! Thursday 15.00 at SP Paviljonki Hotel Sokos Trattoria, outside restaurant. Maybe some beers will be changed from historical promises? :) :)
no he didn't know anything,it was pure luck he didn't hit a rock a tree,or a spectators car.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Same way they retire when they don't know for a cutten log or a stone at the edge of the road.Not something 5-10-20-30 meters away from road.
Corners are thousands at every rally,its impossible to know at which corner you have the space to go out of road,how the car will go out of road(front,sideways,with back side) or how many meters will travel at grass with sideways,when you make the mistake ''due to space'' ,at which stage you will need to push etc etc etc
Besides being a superhuman driver, Ogier can also be pretty ironic...Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
or more normally an excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
its not the first time we ve listen excuses from Ogier.Quote:
Originally Posted by SubaruNorway
Small rock at the edge of the road could get exposed after recce. Clearly visible obstacles are marked, see for example Neuville's rally ending mistake in Monte, he had it marked in the notes.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Ogier totally knew it was open field without big visible obstacles.
Clearly you don't believe drivers can remember most of some 150 kms of stages that they spend 2-3 weeks preparing and watching vids for (as mentioned they drive them at least 2 times and watch on vid at least 3 times, most likely much more, + they are repeated year after year). Well that's just your opinion man ;)
Ohh, forgot, you also don't believe Ogier's own words and ignore the fact that he comes from the area and could have driven the road hundreds of times before. Pure luck is the only reason. Got it.
of course. next time he will hit a stone or a log or whatever,i will ask you how is it possible to don't see it at recce.Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
or when somebody hit a tree,why he pushed at this corner,and not at a different one with 27 meters empty grass,so he could escape without a scratch.
so many watching videos,so many repeated stages for years, and they still hit rocks,logs,failing to cliffs.
Maybe they didn't notice them at recce.
Driver error? No way!
If you want to win you have to push (Tanak)... I would add, everywhere. Clearly some places are safer, some are a bit less safe.
All drivers are watching same vids, so they are all likely to push a bit in the "safer" areas. Which is why you see far more off-road excursions in these areas than in the middle of narrow rock/tree ridden sections. But consequences are more serious in the difficult spots. Also on some rallies/stages the consequences are the same no matter where you crash (Corsica, most Finish stages etc.).
Btw. remember Breen in Sardinia hitting the stone. Immediately after the vid came out quite a lot of people here pointed to recce error (jumping right on the rock in the cut), some people said "bad luck". Then came official wrc vid analysis and Citroen team comments that it was indeed recce/driver error due to inexperience at that spot.
Clearly there is no point to continue this discussion (also Rally Finland thread), even though I find it really difficult to believe how little faith you have in the memory of the fastest rally drivers in the world in the age of onboards. There are tons of evidence, statements from drivers, teams, stagetimes (Breen without intercom on Corsica). Sure 10 years ago the situation was different, not now.
tons of crashes/ retirements at corners with no space.Why they pushed while they know there was no room for error?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Didn't watched the videos?
Repeated so it won´t vanish in the off topic current discussion of drivers errors. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallyper
Highlighted the relevant part of my post for you, maybe you missed it.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
I see you really don't believe that Ogier can remember that a corner close to his childhood-home that he has driven in a rally stage probably 10+ times (5 years x 2 runs), that he drove 2 times in recce, watched a vid of 3 times during the previous week AND one that he drove already 2 hours before (was second run of the stage) has an open area on the outside. Even though he himself says it in an interview. Have to say I give up then, starts to sound like talking to some tinfoil-hat people.
Ogier have some decades of crashes,why he crashed? didn't saw the videos? hadn't done these stages plenty of times? hadn't recce these stages? hadn't run twice at this rally this stage?Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Get real.
You actually have an severe dose of verbal diarrhoea my friend..Quote:
Originally Posted by mknight
Man that weather forecast is so pointless to watch at the moment and it changes with every hour! 6 hours ago when I went to sleep it showed rain on Friday and overcast on Saturday and now in the morning it shows sunny on Friday and rain on Saturday.
Blueford we need you!
Can anyone give me a bit of an idea?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rallymat
restricted to spectator areas....depends when you go there, if you go 4 hours before the first car then you can walk on stage too but if you go JUST before the first car then definitely only restricted areas.
We went a few hours before the start last year and were able to walk into the stages where there were no restrictions. You still need to stand in safe places, but it's less crowded and you can find some really nice sections by looking at the road.
Does anyone know where the Vetomies service area is? I would like to see the cars in person and take a few pictures, but the program is in Finnish :(.
It is more variable than that in my limited experience. Last year some areas were relaxed if you were moving before the safety cars passage but on several stages, despite standing in a safe spot at a location recommended in the programme, the marshal had interpreted their instructions as the zone in question was to be kept spectator-free. Only once did I have to hide in the undergrowth (and got bitten to hell!!) to escape the gaze of the lovely Michelle M. I'm going to start a craze for 'We love you Michelle' banners as she always looks so grumpy and clearly needs cheering up!Quote:
Originally Posted by racerx1979
The spectator guide says that no walking on the stages starting from one hour before start of first car. To be on the safe side would be better to walk even earlier.
http://kuvanjako.fi/5lrqg.jpg
Vetomies service area is at Hippos, Rautapohjankatu 10.
https://www.google.fi/maps/place/Rau...9!4d25.7219595
Great, 1.5-2 hrs is safe. Thanks for the Vetomies info! Much appreciated