For sure they aren't stupid, but it can't be seen as stupid to use motorsport and Pirelli know-how to promote a new (chinese) make.
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For sure they aren't stupid, but it can't be seen as stupid to use motorsport and Pirelli know-how to promote a new (chinese) make.
Well, that's exactly the DMack story :) Afaik Dick Cormack and his "gang" are former Pirelli managers who started new Chinese brand and promoted it through the WRC campaign using their Pirelli know-how.
Not quite the same, as DMack is a niche tyre company focused in motorsport and the Pirelli chinese owners will probably fight for the global market, using Pirelli motorsport and premium ranges as a lever.
I thought the main market of DMack was utility and heavy duty tyres on Chinese market and that the motorsport is just a marketing tool for them.
You're right, even if their road and industrial tyre share will always be residual. But in motorsport they're doing a great job, with an amazing growing pace. Good for them and rally costumers worldwide!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
you cant compare pirellis with Kubica-Prokop and fiestas,against Ogier with polo and michelins and have a safe conclusion.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
somebody else can say that Kubica with private fiesta was plenty of times faster than works fiestas with michelins.
Pirelli at some terrains/surfaces are better.And these are measured with same car/driver.These tests were at asphalt and gravel.Its not something new,its something that happens for years.Some years depenting from tyre evolutions,michelins were overall better,some years were pirelli overall better.
Except these tests there are also real world examples from gravel and asphalt worldwide.
How come RK can´t listen to teamboss? He must have done it in F1, right? So adapting and being tactic is next step for him.
He must have listened but being a perfectionist he can be difficult to work with
Like Willy Rampf told in latest interview about Robert - he needs to have precisely defined task.
I think in 2016 he will work in close cooperation with M-Sport
Tomorrow there will be an article with Wilson in one of the leading Estonian newspaper but there's something revealed already today and he says that Tänak and Evans definitely won't share a car. He says that he hasn't said anything like that at all and it's made up. He also says that he can't comment the Bertelli thing. Tomorrow I will see the full article.
Thank god they won't share the car. It's useless both for them and M-Sport. After two years each it's time to take a decision. Or you take all the two, or just one or try again with some other young gun hoping for a better outcome in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by EstWRC
Kubica getting ready for RMC 2016. Not continuing is a waste of earlier seasons, he says.
http://www.emotorsport.se/nyheter.ph...yhets_id=11427
You are not reading what I wrote, the problem with Pirellis is not pure speed but more consistency, as I said they are fast over a short test probably on any surface (especially wet gravel, and Snow but also tarmac) the problem is the performance drops rapidly compared to Michelin. If you don`t believe me ask the drivers mentioned!! And I wasn`t comparing to Ogier I was making an overall comparison! But this is not the thread to discuss this.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Abbring http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/novem...4--12-12-.html
but what a boring monday, was hoping to see some news from Ostberg or M-sport or both.
A few vague details on Abbring's programme for 2016. Looks like he'll be lucky to get 2-3 rounds.
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/news/novem...4--12-12-.html
Reading between the lines it looks like the ERC could be in for a nice boost.
that was happening before 3-4 years,not now,and only at very abbrasive tarmac.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
About erc tyres we have measure them and there is not a problem such this.And they are tested at extremely hot asphalt/gravel surfaces.
Lately i ve talked about this with Kajto and Lukyanuk,and there is not a problem like that.The opposite told me.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
overall comparison works cars/drivers with Prokop and Kubica.I told you that you cant compare for many reasons that i am sure you know about.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
I am talking about WRC tires and everybody who follows the results can see this, as well as listening to interviews!Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
yes keep comparing Prokop Kubica and private fiestas with works cars/crews and analyze the results.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Very usefull about which tyre is faster.
You can analyse the difference compared to the fastest and make conclusions regardless of driver. You can do this with the slowest dmack fiesta if you want, and see where they loose/gain time compared to the fastest. If the loose 1min/ stage or 1sec doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
For example if a driver looses 1 sec/k on the first 2stages on a 4 stage loop and then for instance loose 4 sec/k on the other 2 than something is happening don't you agree?
I can't comment WRC but in ERC Pirelli didn't suffer with fading of performance at all. Drivers in ERC mostly say that Pirelli had the upper hand this year and also here in CZ some changed from Michelin to Pirelli including the fastest local privateer Pech (and I'm sure that he changed due to better performance of Pirelli not due to price or something else).
no you cant compare and make conclusions with the slowest dmack fiesta.You cant analyse results with drivers like Prokop and Kubica when at stage 3 is 3rd faster and at next stage is 8th without problem,and at next stage is 0,3 sec behind Ogier.You cant have safe conclusions with such a driver.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
An indication could be in a long asphalt for example stage without technical/setup problems to compare Kubica Evans and Tanak to see if pirellis loose their pace after 10-20 kms compared with michelins.Safer is to do that with many stages,and different rallies.
Yes Mirek that seems to be the case in the ERC for some reason unknown to me Michelin won't nominate the lightest tire they have(Pirelli is ~2kg lighter I've heard) and already there is a big difference in performance.
Dimwii since you seem to know better than the teams actually using Pirelli I got this information from(indirectly) than by all means let them know they are wrong��
Are we sure "the Michelin" for a privateer is the same Michelin as a works team gets? We can even wonder if the Michelins VW gets are the same as M-Sport or Hyundai for example. On paper all tyres should be same, but it seems like the tyres are held apart already before arrival on a wrc event, and we've see plenty of michelin trucks/people on footage of WRC tests... Michelin has it's own development project with a lot of testing on every surface. It would be strange to see Michelin attend so many tests of different WRC teams when all have to use the same tyre and nothing can be modified after manufacturing (even cutting isn't allowed), but maybe I'm missing something... :)
All WRC tires are given to teams as lottery controlled by FIA they can't choose themselves which pile they take.... same for all brands, Dmack, Pirelli, Michelin and HankookQuote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
its not unknown the reason,they just cant have average reliability with 2 kg less weight.Pirelli can.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
yes they are wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Catalunya ss11 26,26km
Kubica 14,36
Ogier 14,32
splits for ss11
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/results/sp...07-237---.html
at this point of rally Ogier had 11 sec difference from Latvala,so they were pushing.
Private fiesta against works polo,Ogier vs Kubica.
private fiesta with pirellis faster than works fiestas with michelins.
I cant see that pirelli looses their performance after some km.
really cant understand why you underestimate Pirellis.They are innovative,have huge history at motorsport tyres,and plenty of times had better tyres,from giant tyre makers.For 20 years michelin cant make a faster tyre at wet asphalt.Pirelli always had.
or the XR type for very raw gravel.Really bulletproof tyre.
D type for circuits faster by far.At road tyres with dot trofeo R the faster tyre you can buy.
Plenty of examples mate.
as AMSS wrote they get them by lottery.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
At gr A era yes they had build specific tyres for a team.
But please Dimvii contact Prokop, Kubica and Bertellis teams and tell them they are wrong than, and dig up Kubicas after stage interview from Poland where he openly admitted what I've been trying to say.
Also they had problems this year with several tyres coming off the rims for no apparent reason didn't they?
In NORF in the service area it was very close that all Pirelli drivers would be prohibited from entering since the tyres exploded when fitting on the rims at about 8 bars call the FIA and ask if you don't believe me!
I agree that Pirelli is a fast tyre but that is as consistent as Michelin I do not.
@AMSS, @dimviii, you are right with the lottery. So officially it's not possible to have a different compound if everything is done right.
@AMSS, the 8bars is bullshit. That's the maximum (not minimum) pressure FIA allows for getting the tyre to "pop" on the rims. The pressure used to be higher. For tarmac tyres I know some drivers are actually complaining that the sides of the tyres can't be made as strong anymore, so the tyre is "living" much more in the corners. Maybe you didn't hear right, and the Pirelli's didn't "pop" on the wheels at 8 bar, that could be possible. ;)
Yes you are of course right it's 8bars maximum. I wasn't next to the gauge so couldn't see at what pressure the tyres actually exploded at but it was before they popped on the rim, bu the explosions were so severe that it broke the mandatory pressure cage they were in. And I can tell you it made a massive sound!!
isnt this tire story out of topic?
Bertelli and Prokop there is no reason to talk,there are not going to use any tyre at its maximum,so i really dont care what are they saying at 2-3sec per kn slower everywhere all over the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
Lets go to Robert at Poland.
ss 7 39,12 km
Kubica 9 sec slower from Ogier and 7,8 from Latvala when the difference between Ogier and Latvala is 9,5 sec after 7 stages.
http://www.ewrc-results.com/results....jd-Polski-2015
lets go to splits
http://www.wrc.com/en/wrc/results/po...67-232---.html
after 39,12 km the private fiesta is 9-7,8 sec slower from the triple champion with works polo.Kubica at gravel against Ogier with polo.Can you show me where the pirelli lost its pace after 39 kms?
i didnt said that they didnt had these problems.Did i? if i did quote me please.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
yes plenty of times pirellis had to inflate much more from 8 bars to drive the sidewalls to the rim.Quote:
Originally Posted by tommeke_B
What was Kubicas time on he powerstage in Poland ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
No but correct me if I'm wrong but it has quit an impact on the final time if these things occur doesn't it. This is one of the things I count as consistency, and yes Michelin has tem as well of course but percentages counted alot less.
Estwrc is right we need to end this so lets leave it that both tire brands(well all for that matter) have their advantages an disadvantages and it's up to the customers to choose what they want to buy. Have a god evening and we can continue this sometime in another thread, or should we create a tyre discussion thread ;)
when at 39,12 km its clear that the tyre havent got any disadvantage about its pace after some 10-20-30-40km,the problem is somewhere else.Quote:
Originally Posted by AMSS
its impossible for a tyre to have excellent longevity at some stages,and at some other stages to dont.Its the same tyre.
The problem is not at the tyre.
btw Kubica at powerstage had a flat tyre.
btw Kubica at powerstage had a flat tyre.[/QUOTE]
I know it hence the ;)
Anyway,that i have to say is that there is not a best tyre,sometimes a make has a advantage sometimes have disadvantage.
Dont believe whatever you hear,specially from drivers that they dont had a good rally or plenty of bad results.
Its very easy to blame the tyre,while the problem could be a combo from different reasons,or even the driver.
Pirelli are very good at motorsport tyres,specially at rallies,the sport we love.Of course sometimes Michelin have/had a better tyre,but that isnt forever.
Tyre makers make ''evos'' of tyres,that they dont give to public the info at all,and you cant find it with a mark at the tyre(thay can recognise of course),everything is the same.But when you drive the tyre is different.Only from inside info is possible to know some details.So that today Pirelli is better,maybe this will change with next evolution of michelin,or maybe not change.
Agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
Of my experience/knowledge I would say that a driver with the driving method/style of Kubica will wear his tyres faster than say Ogier. This is because he rounder of the corners more, making them longer (going for highest minimum speed vs better braking/acceleration with lower speed at apex/turning/rotation point.Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
This way You put both braking, sideways directional, and accelerating forces trough the tire - both at the same time, and for an extended time.
By going so fast with the style he does, he also generates higher overall forces.
When Ogier is accelerating after a corner, he very often does this in a straight line, with the car straight, very early after the corner has ended.
Kubica stretches the corner for longer. Because carrying higher speed mid corner, the weight of the car pushes him outside, so he hav to counter that with throttle and steering, just to keep him self on the road, while trying to accelerate.
Splitting up braking, turning/rotating and accelerating is the modern way of rally driving, and its much easier for the tires.
There have been numerous examples of Loeb and Ogier coming to the stage finish with the best time, and the least worn tires. If everybody drove the same way, this would not be possible. Then the one with the highest average speed, would be the one that had pushed the most energy trough the tire, and would have the most worn tire. But this is not the case, and it baffles me that the non-Ogiers dont put more effort in finding out why :)
To quote a famous tire maker: "Power is nothing whiteout control."
i wrote it politely http://www.motorsportforums.com/images/smilies/wink.gifQuote:
Originally Posted by Lundefaret
Quote:
Originally Posted by dimviii
World-of-Rally.com @WorldofRally Nov 21
According to Norwegian media, @MadsOstberg has signed for new team, but not allowed to go official yet. Are we in for a surprise?
World-of-Rally.com @WorldofRally Nov 23
A follow up on @MadsOstberg. The management said Mads will do all events for 2016, for which team will be hopefully announced soon.
BILLIOT Jérémie @planetemarcus
@WorldofRally @MadsOstberg @HartusvuoriWRC Monte Carlo Test Days is coming very soon... we will know in few days.
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