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It surely didn't help that there was another major championship (BTRDA - Dukeries) taking place on the same day. Madness - there may have been extenuating reasons, but organisers/championships need to work together to stop this happening.Quote:
Originally Posted by Markf67
Looking at the fact that we have a financial crisis, and that the power the factories have on privateers that buy or lease a WRCar from them. Then you have the fact that a privat team will have to have huge piles of money/sponsors to be able to do the whole championship.
In addition to this FIA seem to be unable to give manufacturers, teams, media, drivers and sponsors some stability the next 5 years.
All in all this gives a lot of the ansvers on why WRC seems to be on its deathbed in current format.
What role do you all see the new R5 class having in WRC in the future?
Could that class take the role of S2000 could have had, as several here means?
Would that attract more money if FIA would say that from 2015 to 2020 R5 will be top class with one re-homologation late 2016, used from 2017.
I feel stability in rules and simple cars, that a privat team could buy and still win with. More or less like IndyCar. Less power to a few manufacturers, and a more open and exiting championship!
A question. What is the WRC for? What do the Manufacturers want to promote? Is the sport still relevant?What about new technology – hybrids, recoverable energy, etc
I’m not overly optimistic about the future; do any of the stakeholders agree on anything? Until that happens the sport is going nowhere.
So I think the same currently about the future of WRC. :-(Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
A very good question. I believe there ought to be a very bright future for those forms of motorsport in which the cars being used are based on roadgoing machines, eg rallying and touring cars, for the very reason of their direct relevance to cars driven by the watching public. Following on from that, there should be scope for the testing and introduction of the new technologies you mention. What better method could there be of promoting them? The trouble is that these things are expensive, and are now, as I see it, hard to bring in because of the increasing move towards standardised parts and 'one size fits all' technical regulations. Motorsport needs to be careful to remain relevant, and, even without such technologies being introduced, I think touring car racing can survive on the basis of being entertaining. When we'll start to see hybrids and recoverable energy in touring cars given that manufacturer support is so limited these days I don't know, but I'm sure it will happen. But if rallying is no longer entertaining or interesting to watch — and I don't think it is at present — what does it have?Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
Surely what rallying needs are cars that are, in effect, the MkII Escorts of their day — available for many to buy and thus providing a lot of competitive cars. It is sad that such a thing today seems an unachievable pipedream.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
They want to be in F1 league, that's why it's so expensive.
Those concerned need to wake up and see the reality, then. Otherwise I can see the top level of the sport dying a death.Quote:
Originally Posted by Barreis
First of all they need to understand that F1 and Rallying are two completely different sports...
the audience is completely different... F1 is for everyone... which is good for money.
WRC is for Alpha male wolfs... which can also be good for money if is is provided in the proper context.... but it will never reach the numbers of F1, because simply there scared little sick dogs in this world who are concerned about drivers hair styles and sexual orientations are way larger in numbers than proper people.
I detect a collective yawn on the part of most forum members at reading most of this.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
As for the first point, Pentti Airikkala once said that having F1 and rallying run by the same body is akin to 'football and rugby being run out of the same office'. I am beginning to wonder whether he was right.
If i would like to be taken seriously i would not post on the interwebs...Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
What nonsense are you yapping about now perraQuote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Whose dreams shattered? Yours?
well that would explain why you are always bitter and so critical of others---simple transference of your failures, blaming the rest of the world for your crushed dreams.
Do all Greeks do that? Is that why your entire country seems to be in such horrible shape?
If in your feverish mind you intended to make disparaging comments about my activities in motorsport there's an convenient answer to perritas such as you:
Better a has been than a never was.
And even for a mere noise like you, I am in a some way sorry that your life is so empty, so hopeless that you have to pour your misery and rage out here in 99.79% of every post.
nice confirmation...
thank you.
This was an interesting discussion before one particular post.
I agree...Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Interesting perspective. Never thought about it that way before.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Pentti, as ever, spoke a lot of sense and I’d say he had a point. However, what I would say is that during the Mosley era, F1 grew massively, and all the other series at some point, whithered – all to the benefit of F1. This was not a coincidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Todt says he wants to turn around the WRC, I’m inclined to believe him, and he was brought back a World Championship for Sportscars, so he’s still in credit.
While the FiA get a lot of critiscism, and rightly so, the Manufacturers aren’t innocent either. It’s mainly down to them were the WRC has ended – down a blind alley.
Why doesn't the FIA allow a representative from each manufacturer and 2-3 representatives from the drivers into the commision ?? They are the ones directly involved and risk their money and lives...
instead we have 60 and 70 year old people with 3rd age crisis trying to do a very important job...
their place is in an old peoples home not any kind of committee...
Animals aside....Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
This is where the promotor should have come into the picture. But the ones that has been up till now has not been able to renew WRC, and by that sell it to a larger audience than us petrolheads.
Use of internet and TV together are keywords in what has to be done.
there are endless opportunities in the streaming world, and with all the data they can collect from teams and cars, with double-picture technology and so on.
In my opinion internet services could be done in-house in FIA, and reuse technology for all FIA series.
TV is harder, and need to be in-sourced from a production company.
FIA need to start thinking internet use, and not just TV - those two need to be working together!
Or more precisely, the principles running their rally teams, one in particular that obviously intended to imitate the "own the media rights" crap from F1 side, which meant change everything to make it "easier" for TV :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyRAC
They do.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
There is a representative of each manufacturer, plus Rally Organisers etc etc.
I renew my question to you of a week ago - who do you think is on the Commission? You make these ridiculous statements but you actually have no idea what you're prattling on about.
Again - who are these vague characters of people you're accusing to be on the Commission?
http://www.fia.com/en-GB/the-fia/gov...t-comms-wg.pdf
hope this one answers your question...
nice assortment of failures in their prime trying to make it during their sunset of their careers and lifes...
where is the manufacturer representative and the drivers one?
Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
I'm sure you're very happy with yourself for finding that little document, but surely you realise that there's more people on a commission than one person? Arnad Crepin is an employee of FIA.
Ford are represented by Gerard Quinn, Citroen by Yves Matton, while Mini and VW have representatives invited but not able to vote (not full manufacturers). Malcolm Wilson also votes to represent 'teams'.
robert reid is vice president (another co-driver...LOL) and i wonder why Mouton has a saying as well...
overall there are 9 members...their names however are hard to find...
all in all the commission is doing a very bad job... and seems that those representatives of the teams are not taken seriously because every time the commisison comes with a decision they seem to be the first to voice concerns...
we need new people with new ideas not old people in their 60s and 70s...
yes indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by rallyfiend
One thing that bugs me, and pardon if you guys have already talked about it, is that there has not been an interesting "ladder" in rallying for years. Yes we have S2000 but most of the drivers/teams have chosen IRC with S2000. We have not lower levels with interesting machinery for young drivers. We have no lower levels for anybody, not for drivers nor manufacturers or carmakes.
Do you remember from where Skoda, Seat and Hyundai came WRC ?? The kit-cars. And their championship was organized and worked. My wish is... or was that FIA would pick up S2000 and gave it a tempting championship worth to fight for. WRC cars would be the highest level of rallying and one would go there by stepping up the ladder. IMO FIA is wasting S2000 completely.
It's easy to say there is no promoter. WRC must be made interesting and then promoters line up. But it means the whole package, not just WRC level.
I think that partially the reason is that as the technology of the kit cars improved they became very expensive so most drivers who had their eyes in the WRC as a career prefered to go straight to the big league than waste money with a lesser car....same goes for the s1600 championship and s2000s of today.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
In my opinion it's a bit different case. The main problem is that with any lower class you are virtually invisible in WRC. Public don't care about You no matter how fast driver You are, You are ignored in TV and You are far from top of the overall leaderboard (ask Hänninen about S2000 victories in NORF). When You go with same car into the IRC You can fight for overall victory, You can be in TV and You are more likely to be recognized by common people who doesn't know what each class means and why someone who is written in results to be 10th overall in WRC event driving Skoda Fabia must be a great driver...
that is also a factor and i think the main reason sponsors will prefer someone doing IRC and not WRC...Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Again it is FIAs fault since they do not give the lesser classes of the WRC any respect, so it is normal now that the PWRC and the SWRC are filled with tourists with no future, present and past.
for example why does the power stage only counts for the WRC ? they should have points awarded in the PWRC and SWRC class as well...small change you might say but if you add 100 more of small changes you can make a difference.
They are giving powerstage points to all class winners in Estonian Championship since the beginning of 2012. That is a great idea. I have never seen so many drivers driving so fast on the last stage of the rally :-) It is very spectacular for the spectators and motivating for drivers as well. Probably good for TV and sponsors as well :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
yes it is the normal thing to do... go tell that to the failures of the WRC commission...Quote:
Originally Posted by bluuford
If FIA wanted maximum from rallying, they would create an interesting lower level, from which the best drivers climb to the top and to keep it interesting for the teams, FIA would make a deal with the promoter that they get certain amount of visibility each rally. Personally, I don't think it wouldn't be a bad bargain. The championship in the lower level could be more interesting than in WRC ;)
Anyway, somehow they have got it work for F1 and the minions....
How about a powerstage at the end of each leg? And live streaming, free to watch from wrc.com :)
If only...At the minute I'd be happy with split times that actually loaded up on time....
FIA need to act, and have a long term plan to act from. Today they are firefighters, and are only thinking short term.
Come with signals NOW on what they plan to use class R5 for. It is the natural choice for top model in all national and regional championships.
S2000 NA, the class they killed, only in National series.
Think about a super licence for international rally. So we avoid all gentleman drivers in a WRCar, and bad accidents due to lack of skills.
FIA:Make a plan for the next 10 years, with a review after 5 years - and stick to it! Give stability to manufacturers, teams and drivers, so they dont use a lot of money to develop or buy a car that is obsolete and worth close to zero in a couple of years!
wrc.com is so pity that Fred Flintstone will mock on it! Every time when there's a rally in the end of the world I have to go through several other sites with timezones, daylight saving/no saving winter/summer etc. In the meantime when I open formula1.com I look right and just click on the button "convert to my time" and everything is sorted up! Such small things are very important and very simple to make, but the staff prefer to moan for the money they lost from the arabs! You suck!Quote:
Originally Posted by tfp
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Then you only have the bad accidents due to little mistakes and brain farts..
DOH! Still bad accidents..
Or are Petter's accidents "good accidents" because he has more skill?
[/quote:3b3kscs3]Quote:
FIA:Make a plan for the next 10 years, with a review after 5 years - and stick to it! Give stability to manufacturers, teams and drivers, so they dont use a lot of money to develop or buy a car that is obsolete and worth close to zero in a couple of years!
See the problem I have is the thinking that infects fans who are not real competitors, maybe never was,. never will be and who don't understand how vital the driver's role is..
We have many many young, usually ignorant and often very stupid "Fans" here who say "DOOOoooooooOOOD, (you must go up and down with accent like you Norsk gutter) why it's natural that the best drivers have the best cars---it's always been that way"
Idiots don't realise I lined up occasionally same time (not really against, men samma tävling, samma dag, dom var världens bäst)
and yeah those VM riders bikes were "better", but not substantially different from mine---and mine was just as quick--- and not much different from the spec---the specification---of a B-påse somewhere..
The absolute best were still say 250cc, still weighed min xx kilos, had 5 speeds (and everybody had virtually identical gear ratios), brakes, etc etc
VM hero might, and probably did have a new tire in the morning, but I probably and often did have their tire from last week with little time on it.
It was NOT a whole HIGHER and technically superior design......like is often advocated..
And often as we have seen the last 12+ years in our little duck-pond of rally USA, the "ultimate" spec cars are so expensive, only idenpendantly wealthy types can afford to purchase or lease them, so for the Blockstranas and the trust fund "underdeprived" they buy the "best" with ZERO previous experience.......
And pay their press whores to write REAMS of press inferring they are "the best in the World".
A critical element is that local guys can compare their times to therir national best, and national best compare with VM guys,
without discounting the equipment or giving up in advance.
Give manufacturers or teams too much power over any motorsport series and they will ruin it.Quote:
Originally Posted by N.O.T
Worse still, a part of that ladder used to be competitive national championships in which it was financially possible for teams to run the same machinery as could be found at the front of WRC events. Thus they attracted good drivers and public attention. I think it's no coincidence that rallying as a sport is at such a low current ebb when national championships are, to most, of no consequence.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.F.F.
Who in recent years would this have excluded?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
Nombre, oliveira, companq, villagra, barrat, pavlides, rossi and many many othersQuote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell