Some new and interesting info.......
AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Inside The 2012 Car's Design & Development Issues
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Some new and interesting info.......
AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: Inside The 2012 Car's Design & Development Issues
New? We have been discussing that article for the past week.Quote:
Originally Posted by jimispeed
Sorry Dbell, I didn't notice your post! Carry on!Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Thanks for the info - I assumed it was something of the sort in terms of tax etc.
Seriously?
2011 can't end soon enough for IndyCar
Is next-generation IndyCar race car safer than the previous one?
Design in a compromise. If we allowed an infinite amount of time to consider every aspect of a product then a) it wouldn't function as intended, and b) it would never get made. Indycar is very sensitive about certain facets of safety at present, which is understandable. 20/20 hindsight is of course a wonderful thing too.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
saw some pretty grainy video from Homestead- look like they might have lost the "snorkle" and did something with the rear of the car... still looks like some pretty sizable "hips" - but they appear to be working on it hard....
for what it is worth, I was reading Mario Andretti's book by Gordon Kirby at lunch... The section about the first Lola in 1983 was interesting - apparently Lola deliver a real dog too - and with hard work it was a winner by the end of the year.... My point being - while I would prefer they get it right the first time, if Mario was tweeting what a POS the first Lola was back in 1983 many would have thought the sky was falling too - as long as they are showing that they are working on the car I have (a little) faith that it will be good by the time it is really racing....
So, if the teams are supposed to get the cars next week, what are they going to do with them if they are not really ready????
Freeze the video. These cars look pretty d*** good! I'd be a fan!
IZOD IndyCar Series 2012 car test at Homestead - YouTube
*On second look I think I see the airbox, but I can definitely see it without one, and that would get my vote!!
People keep on pissing and moaning, but come St. Pete these cars will be fine.
Definitely no airbox................hallelujah!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jimispeed
Looks like the Honda has one but the Chevy doesn't to me. Also the rear of the side pods look smaller to me too, although its hard to tell.
The cars were measurable slower as well as visually. They never came close to breaking the 26 sec barrier even when running nose to tail.
Yet another article.......
AUTO RACING - INDYCAR: 2012 Dallara Improving On Ovals
Oh dear, we've built cars that drivers can't corner flat out with. Wait, why is this bad again?
This is a good point. Why is reaching 2011 oval speeds the desired requirement? Fine if they reach 2011 speeds with a much changed aero/HP package (i.e. low downforce and monster HP to remove pack racing) but if we end up with a high downforce, low HP solution then all we're going to have is the same style of racing on ovals with a car is that is slightly more pleasing on the eye than the previous machine.
I have been wondering the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
I just think there are some "fans" who will complain about everything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by call_me_andrew
But, but, but we just HAVE to have "a new track record" announced at Indy or the sky will fall and the Earth will crack open at 16th and Georgetown and swallow up the track and spectators.Quote:
Originally Posted by beachbum
Gary
That's a little
Dramatic Gary....
Of coarse reality the sports in the dumper and doesn't have a single block to build on at this point..
Cam you name a better block than speed?
Sure, how about competitive racing. If all we chase is speed, then we get what we have now, namely 100% throttle "racing". I want to see the drivers have to lift in the corners, which requires some differential in cornering speeds and straight line speeds. Which will most likely come at the expense of top speed.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
Gary
What you want is irrelevant
How much tv revenue does spec miata produce?
Indycar: we lift in the corners!
That's where you and I completely 100% disagree ...
Competitive it subjective ... Look no further than the IRL putting up a string on close finishes and still seeing declines in attendance and ratings .., loss if teams sponsors and tracks
Posters have been telling me for years I'm wrong yet the decline in popularity is palatable
Your definition is subjective
I think it's time to say that the new car is a .. failure. That's right. It is in fact uglier than previous, slower, aerodynamically inefficient and delicate. And it seems overpriced to me as well. The only positive side is safety measures in hiding wheels. Bad job from Dallara. But hey, i'm sure a Chinese manufacturer could do far better job for a half price :p :
as for the speed thing, when was the last time NASCAR had "a new track record" at an "old" track??
NASCAR currently has a fan base and a working biz model...Indycar doesn'tQuote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
true, but they built a lot of the casual fanbase long after Awesome Bill's big speeds of the mid 1980's.... I want to see faster cars too - but I am not sure that will being people back - I think there is more to it than speed - what, I am not sure.....Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
honestly, I think Indycar has been a bit "hoity toity" over the years - which suit me fine - I am a bit of a snob myself - but I think it may tend to alienate too many and it also tends to make some think they are really more successful than they truly are (and nobody is all that willing to help someone or something they think is more successful than them)...
Last, but not least, I think there is a bit of an industrial conspiracy against AOWR in general. Both NASCAR and F1 know that IF Indycar ever "got it together" they would have inferior products and Indycar could have them both for lunch.... So, I think there are more than a few in the industry who could cut Indycar some slack that are not doing it and indeed may even be acting in a manner to impede success of Indycar....
Last but not least, Indycar is its own worst enemy. It has been run by a group of people who really do not understand or care about the world too far beyond Indianapolis (or the mid-west anyway) for many many years. Even the CART guys rarely had a true world view (or even a USA wide view)...
Bottom line is that while speed is important, I think it is toward the bottom of the top 10 list of problems with Indycar and in and of itself won't make much difference without fixing other issues too....
I have maintained there is more to the puzzle than just a track record ...
But I believe it's currently the most important and the first building block ...
Indycar: we've got a new car, it's slower than the old buts it's got a bumper! Is not going to garner even a single set of new eyeballs
No offense but it's like saying that baseball will have soccer for lunch in the world outside North America. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
you are 100% right - but the old car wouldn't either.... heck, the new champcar being pretty good didn't do them any good either....Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
My personal opinion is that they need to go radical and go to a front engine (optional but might be favorable with my other ideas), open wheel, aero limited (i.e. - the old "integral to the body" only) 4 wheel drive (allowable) model. They should include a stock "survival cell" that is non structural in nature and standardized. Everything else should be open as long as it fits in a box of a specific size.... To add some security to the series they should probably include penalty weight potential for overly successful cars.... oh,a and to limit power they would have to get a certain gas mileage or some other conversion to limit total energy used during any given race.....
Basically, standardize only a safety cell, let the boys have at it if it fits in the standard box, uses a set amount of energy and no longer includes "wings" or some other serious aero restriction that is beyond me....
THEN, you have a unique product that, whether it is faster or slower, can and will be interesting, exciting and innovative oh, and perhaps even cheap if they do the safety cell right).... THEN you have something to sell and to get excited about... Problem is, if it is a bust the game is over.....
Anyway, Ken, I do agree with your sentiments - it is just that I will be ok if the new car races well , I am more concerned about ugliness of the car than I am about the speed at the moment... I am guessing they will allow more power if needed to address the speed concerns.... you are right though, the new car is NOT going to being any new fans - but really, none of the concepts presented would have done it either.... If they want to grow the sport they need to break the mold and start anew....
:Dfair enough - my comments were definitely from a xenophobic american point of view ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
and to a limited extent, the expanding markets care no more (or less) about F-1 than Indycar - theoretically if you send a great Indycar market to the Pacific Rim, they could easily displace F1..... As far as Europe and the former colonies around the world that are still heavily euro-centric - F1 will always be king
upon further reflection, it would be more akin to me saying soccor would have baseball for lunch in North America if it ever had an unencumbered opportunity and a good effort.... I do not think baseball is a superior product to soccer/football(in the European sense of the word)...Quote:
Originally Posted by DexDexter
I'm with ya.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
Close finishes and competitive racing are not the same thing at all. Close finishes are the result of the non-competitive 100% throttle "racing" we have right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
Gary
And your's is not???Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
Gary
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris R
Wait a second, on one hand you are saying that a requirement for a series to have a fan base is for it to continuously produce higher and higher speeds, and yet in the next breath you say that NASCAR which hasn't produced a "new track record" has said fan base.Quote:
Originally Posted by SarahFan
Gary
i don't know Gary, the IRL/Indycar has been producing some pretty competitive racing and not just 100% throttle racing- I would say any given race is at least as exciting as anything the competition has to offer (not to say there are not duds - but F1 and NASCAR have some real snoozefests also).Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
The big thing Indycar has a problem with is the length of the caution periods - and the number of cautions. They drive around at 50 mph for 5 laps on a street course and anyone will lose interest.....
I agree. I went to my first Indy Car race at Nazareth in 1995. What I was most impressed with was how much ground a following car could make up on the car ahead on the straight if the following driver got the corner right. Momentum racing is just not interesting to me. You may as well be rolling a bunch of marbles around in a bowl.Quote:
Originally Posted by Starter
And for what it's worth, I don't watch NASCAR "momentum" races either. It's been years since I've watched the races from Daytona and Talladega . . . . . and my whole year used to revolve around the Daytona 500.
What's subjective about a new track record?Quote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Seriously Gary pay attention.... I'm saying the sport is in the dumper and the new car solves nothing.... It will garner not a single new viewer or attendee
Ken: blackQuote:
Originally Posted by garyshell
Gary: white
Ken: up
Gary: down
Your being silly...