Should f1 run coupes?

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why ban them when you can make them safer?
Who said we should ban F1? Daniel only proposed solutions to make it safer.

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Equally, why make them safer when they are not intrinsically unsafe, and when an element of risk will always accompany the sport?

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Originally Posted by ioan

But no Swiss died anymore while racing or watching a GP in Switzerland.

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By the same token, some Swiss people have been killed during that time while walking to the shops. Would you advocate the banning of that, too?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Equally, why make them safer when they are not intrinsically unsafe, and when an element of risk will always accompany the sport?

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Well, ummmm they are intrinsically unsafe in certain situations?

[youtube]j1zqL86w0Gk[/youtube]
[youtube]xjd5p8dDQdU[/youtube]

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Well, ummmm they are intrinsically unsafe in certain situations?

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So is anything one could care to mention.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

By the same token, some Swiss people have been killed during that time while walking to the shops. Would you advocate the banning of that, too?

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I didn't advocate the banning of anything, I only pointed out a fact. You might want to reread the thread before making up things I never posted.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

So is anything one could care to mention.

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Like thinking, for example?

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Originally Posted by ioan

I didn't advocate the banning of anything, I only pointed out a fact.

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As did I.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

As did I.

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No, that wasn't a fact it was a lie.

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Originally Posted by ioan

No, that wasn't a fact it was a lie.

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In what way is it a lie to say that some Swiss people have been killed walking to the shops?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

In what way is it a lie to say that some Swiss people have been killed walking to the shops?

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The lie was about me advocating a ban.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I'm sorry but that's a disappointing answer coming from yourself and Ben, two people on here who I think are quite intelligent.

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I had presumed you had started this thread with your tongue firmly in your cheek but it seems not.

Racing is inherently dangerous, you know that. Young testosterone loaded men duking it out on track with spectators watching or racing the clock inches from both trees and crowds, its inherently unsafe given the energies involved.

There are open wheeled formulae and there are closed wheel formulae. Drivers, marshalls and spectators are utterly free choose to take part in either or neither.

Do them a favour and respect the fact that all three groups may actually have the intelligence and free will to weigh up the risks involved and balance that against the benefits they get from taking part.

If open wheeled racing is too dangerous for them then all drivers are free to sign up with Audi, Peugeot and the like and go GT racing. The fact that they don't is due to their own free will. I'm sure that having seen what happened to Massa or Perez they are more than aware of the risks involved, more than you are.

I am all for improving safety wherever possible but open wheel racing is called that for a reason. Cover up the wheels and you change the entire nature of the sport. If you really have an issue with risk in motorsport don't pussy around with small things like covering up wheels and the cockpit, have the balls to ban the thing altogether.

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

I had presumed you had started this thread with your tongue firmly in your cheek but it seems not.

Racing is inherently dangerous, you know that. Young testosterone loaded men duking it out on track with spectators watching or racing the clock inches from both trees and crowds, its inherently unsafe given the energies involved.

There are open wheeled formulae and there are closed wheel formulae. Drivers, marshalls and spectators are utterly free choose to take part in either or neither.

Do them a favour and respect the fact that all three groups may actually have the intelligence and free will to weigh up the risks involved and balance that against the benefits they get from taking part.

If open wheeled racing is too dangerous for them then all drivers are free to sign up with Audi, Peugeot and the like and go GT racing. The fact that they don't is due to their own free will. I'm sure that having seen what happened to Massa or Perez they are more than aware of the risks involved, more than you are.

I am all for improving safety wherever possible but open wheel racing is called that for a reason. Cover up the wheels and you change the entire nature of the sport. If you really have an issue with risk in motorsport don't pussy around with small things like covering up wheels and the cockpit, have the balls to ban the thing altogether.

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Fair comment. Whilst I feel that the wheels should be covered I do see that it's part of the challenge (a small part of me, but a big part to others) but I really don't see a reason to leave the cockpits uncovered.

I understand the motorsport is dangerous, but to me I don't feel that covering the cockpit would spoil the racing :)

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Originally Posted by Dylan H

There is only one way of reducing the risk properly.

Ban motorsport.

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Ban spectators?

[youtube]eVd1HVlJD3A[/youtube]

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Originally Posted by wedge

Ban spectators?

[youtube]eVd1HVlJD3A[/youtube]

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Holy sheet!

I hope F1 never goes closed wheel. It completely changes the form of racing and the skill level when the cars can bang together with often very little physical consequence.

It's sort of like suggesting motorcyle racing use outriggers so they can't fall over. Pointless IMO.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

I hope F1 never goes closed wheel. It completely changes the form of racing and the skill level when the cars can bang together with often very little physical consequence.

It's sort of like suggesting motorcyle racing use outriggers so they can't fall over. Pointless IMO.

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OK I can see the argument with regards to keeping it open wheel, personally it wouldn't bother me but I can see the point people are making. but I still don't understan the irrational hatred of roofs on cars?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

OK I can see the argument with regards to keeping it open wheel, personally it wouldn't bother me but I can see the point people are making. but I still don't understan the irrational hatred of roofs on cars?

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The audi r15 was open cockpit, but then with the regs changes in le mans for 2011 meaning they had to use smaller engines, they opted to use a tin top design for better aerodynamics...I wonder why this hasn't been used in F1?

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Originally Posted by tfp

The audi r15 was open cockpit, but then with the regs changes in le mans for 2011 meaning they had to use smaller engines, they opted to use a tin top design for better aerodynamics...I wonder why this hasn't been used in F1?

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Because the regs don't allow for it I guess. If they did put a roof on and covered the wheels up then the cars would be loads more fuel efficient and I suspect we wouldn't need this DRS crap anymore.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Because the regs don't allow for it I guess. If they did put a roof on and covered the wheels up then the cars would be loads more fuel efficient and I suspect we wouldn't need this DRS crap anymore.

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And we would also be able to merge F1 and sportscar racing.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Because the regs don't allow for it I guess. If they did put a roof on and covered the wheels up then the cars would be loads more fuel efficient and I suspect we wouldn't need this DRS crap anymore.

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I thought the FIA would have something to do with it:-)

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I understand the motorsport is dangerous, but to me I don't feel that covering the cockpit would spoil the racing :)

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It wouldn't, but it would be too fundamental a change to the character of the sport. The distinction between open-wheel forms of racing and such as touring cars, sportscars etc is an essential element of there being different forms of motorsport.

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Originally Posted by wedge

Ban spectators?

[youtube]eVd1HVlJD3A[/youtube]

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Now that IS frightening. How such a thing can happen is beyond me — and it's another indictment of deteriorating driving standards percolating down from certain well-known championships into club racing.

I hate to say it, though, but while both that footage and the Allan McNish shunt at Le Mans are incredibly scary in terms of the potential for spectator injury, it is also inevitable that spectators will continue to run that risk as long as they are allowed in to motor sport events, again owing to freak occurrences.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

And we would also be able to merge F1 and sportscar racing.

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Just because the cars would be similar doesn't mean they're the same thing.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Now that IS frightening. How such a thing can happen is beyond me — and it's another indictment of deteriorating driving standards percolating down from certain well-known championships into club racing.

I hate to say it, though, but while both that footage and the Allan McNish shunt at Le Mans are incredibly scary in terms of the potential for spectator injury, it is also inevitable that spectators will continue to run that risk as long as they are allowed in to motor sport events, again owing to freak occurrences.

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Well the only people really in danger there were photographers and marshals.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Well the only people really in danger there were photographers and marshals.

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But the potential for incidents involving spectators still exists.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

But the potential for incidents involving spectators still exists.

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Of course, but you have to say that almost all reasonable steps have been taken that can be taken without completely spoiling the spectacle

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Of course, but you have to say that almost all reasonable steps have been taken that can be taken without completely spoiling the spectacle

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I would suggest that's the same as regards the drivers, too, on the grounds that the sort of accidents that have of late caused serious harm have generally been freak occurrences.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I would suggest that's the same as regards the drivers, too, on the grounds that the sort of accidents that have of late caused serious harm have generally been freak occurrences.

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Feak occurences or not, if it's possible to take measures to stop these incidents hurting people and it doesn't spoil the sport then what's the deal?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Hahahahaha :laugh:

Says the man who twisted my post (in this very thread) to suggest I had no regard for drivers lives!!!! :eek:

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Which was, as I intimated earlier, highly predictable.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Hahahahaha :laugh:

Says the man who twisted my post (in this very thread) to suggest I had no regard for drivers lives!!!! :eek:

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Which was, as I intimated earlier, highly predictable.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Looks like this is the exaggeration hour.
Someone asks a logical question and all they get in turn is some over inflated exaggerations.

Maybe we can have an intelligent counterargument from you instead of the rubbish you posted above?

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Answer the questions .
Do that rather than suggest they are illogical , over inflated , unintelligent , or rubbish , please .

Where do you draw that line on safety in an area of sport there will always be danger ?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

OK I can see the argument with regards to keeping it open wheel, personally it wouldn't bother me but I can see the point people are making. but I still don't understan the irrational hatred of roofs on cars?

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Thanks , Daniel , for understanding the open wheel thing .

I can also see your point of wanting to make things safer .

The points I have seen to counter the roof you are suggesting aren't really irrational , though , are they ?
It would reduce the vision , which is already an issue in F1 .
It would be frighteningly hot at some tracks .
Driver extraction , in the case of a crash , could be more difficult .

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Answer the questions .
Do that rather than suggest they are illogical , over inflated , unintelligent , or rubbish , please .

Where do you draw that line on safety in an area of sport there will always be danger ?

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For ioan, I fear the line was drawn at the moment Massa had his accident.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Anyone who watches Le Mans will have seen the two Audi's crash with practically no injury to the drivers. At some point an F1 driver is going to get hurt and coupes are obviously stinger.

Discuss :)

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That is a worse idea than Bernie's sprinkler system. F1 cars are single seaters, if you want coupes just watch Sports Cars!

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Originally Posted by Bezza

That is a worse idea than Bernie's sprinkler system. F1 cars are single seaters, if you want coupes just watch Sports Cars!

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Bingo.

open wheel, open cockpit.

if you enclose the wheels and enclose the cockpit, you have a sports prototype. That's already "covered" and not even remotely as popular as F1 anywhere.

Of all the posts in this 17 pages. Only about 20 odd posts probably have proper points and issues raised, the rest seem to be pointless rambles or abuse. :rolleyes:

Quantity over Quality I fear. :(

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

absurd over-reaction to a single tragic event.

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And yet, you think F1 is complacent vis a vis safety? Bucks Fizz.....

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

The points I have seen to counter the roof you are suggesting aren't really irrational , though , are they ?
It would reduce the vision , which is already an issue in F1 .
It would be frighteningly hot at some tracks .
Driver extraction , in the case of a crash , could be more difficult .

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Vision is a problem, but we've got the best engineers in the world supposedly? I mean these days the visibility is rubbish, we need some sort of standard level of visibility.
Agreed, there would probably need to be air conditioning
Again, best engineers in the world :) But it would need to be properly evaluated as it's not the sort of thing you could ask the teams to do in a afew months.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Vision is a problem, but we've got the best engineers in the world supposedly? I mean these days the visibility is rubbish, we need some sort of standard level of visibility.
Agreed, there would probably need to be air conditioning
Again, best engineers in the world :) But it would need to be properly evaluated as it's not the sort of thing you could ask the teams to do in a afew months.

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Only way to improve visibility is to reduce the height of the head protection.....

......or use clear aluminium like wot they did in Star Trek IV for them humpbacks..... :p

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Only way to improve visibility is to reduce the height of the head protection.....

......or use clear aluminium like wot they did in Star Trek IV for them humpbacks..... :p

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Well tbh they should probably sit up a bit higher really. F1 needs to set standards for visibility. I can just about accept that open wheels and the dangers that they bring are part and parcel of F1, but making it more difficult to see where your wheels and front wing are?????? :crazy: