Your opinion on 'Drag Reduction System'

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I think that's what everyone wants. I don't think that having aero is inherently good in terms of spectacle and I think if the cars can be kept rougly as fast (and safe) without it then all the better. Wider tyrs and active suspension would make for much racier cars IMHO. I still think DRS is a step in the right direction if aero is going to be kept, it just needs some tweaking.

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Indeed. Wider tyres etc and less aero always makes for better racing. Another aspect to look at is brakes. F1 cars can brake from 300+ km/h to 80 km/h within 100 meters, which is rediculous! It lessens the chance to outbrake your opponent. Making the braking zone longer with less braking power as in the days gone by will also assist with overtaking opportunities.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Indeed. Wider tyres etc and less aero always makes for better racing. Another aspect to look at is brakes. F1 cars can brake from 300+ km/h to 80 km/h within 100 meters, which is rediculous! It lessens the chance to outbrake your opponent. Making the braking zone longer with less braking power as in the days gone by will also assist with overtaking opportunities.

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Agreed. Personally I'd have loved to see F1 cars with 17 or 18" wheels and some nice big cast iron discs rather than the carbon ones they have now.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Agreed. Personally I'd have loved to see F1 cars with 17 or 18" wheels and some nice big cast iron discs rather than the carbon ones they have now.

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Yebo yes :up: Probably will never happen, but at least we can dream :p :

DRS should be used to enable the following driver to set up the pass, not to enable hime to have passed with the wing still open. Once they get it right - and TBO in fairness to the FIA, they will only learn from their mistakes - the racing will likely be better as a result.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

DRS should be used to enable the following driver to set up the pass, not to enable hime to have passed with the wing still open. Once they get it right - and TBO in fairness to the FIA, they will only learn from their mistakes - the racing will likely be better as a result.

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Definitely. If they can manage to progressively remove the DRS effect when the car gets alongside then IMHO DRS will really make the races come alive.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Definitely. If they can manage to progressively remove the DRS effect when the car gets alongside then IMHO DRS will really make the races come alive.

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How about that for a rule: use DRS if you're within a second of the car in front but you must release it the moment you draw level. Could that work?

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How about that for a rule: use DRS if you're within a second of the car in front but you must release it the moment you draw level. Could that work?

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I don't think having that sort of system is going to be practical. They just need to concentrate on what they've already been doing, i.e. allowing the DRS to get you alongside when you get to the braking zone, at which point DRS shuts down.

However, it's not just DRS that's improving things this year, we've seen a lot of overtaking and battling outside of the DRS areas too, which has to be to do with the tyres.

It's just a pity that most of the time the fight is for second place at best!

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Originally Posted by Dave B

How about that for a rule: use DRS if you're within a second of the car in front but you must release it the moment you draw level. Could that work?

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I think the DRS would need to cut out gradually as it would be like an air brake cutting in suddenly which I think would be bad.

If you want a simple (and admittedly dumb) idea that will work fantastically:

Let everyone have DRS all the time... except the leader, who doesn't have it at all.

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Originally Posted by Malllen

If you want a simple (and admittedly dumb) idea that will work fantastically:

Let everyone have DRS all the time... except the leader, who doesn't have it at all.

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That artificially benfits the leader though, it'd be like Mario Kart 64 where if you had the blue shell you'd hang back and just before the end fire it off and take the win :D

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Originally Posted by Dave B

How about that for a rule: use DRS if you're within a second of the car in front but you must release it the moment you draw level. Could that work?

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Dear God no, no, no.

DRS is too much of a gimmick as it is.

I was sceptical but inquisitive but now get rid of the DRS system altogether. The tyres are fine as it is but DRS exaggerates the speed and grip differential.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Thanks for that quite frankly nonsensical post. So basically it seems like DRS did sleep with your wife/girlfriend :mark:

You have fail dismally to actually prove that there is something inherently wrong with DRS, merely the way it was executed in Turkey.

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Tell me, what was nonsensical from my part? You're the one who keeps bringing up the nocturnal habits of the DRS.

You said cars in the past needed to be "stupidly quicker" to overtake. I disagreed with you on that because making cars "stupidly quicker" is what the DRS does. Cars were definitely able to overtake before the DRS.

Now the DRS does seem to be liked by the drivers but I suspect that it just makes their day at the office more fun. Ultimately they are still finishing in a predictable order. After two hours the cream will always rise to the top but would Webber have got past Alonso without the DRS?

There is no overtaking problem in F1 that I can see but the "one second" rule is the interesting innovation to come from the DRS. I can see that rule surviving and being the basis for some future developments but I can't see the DRS being on the cars next year.

The DRS zones should probably be dynamically adjusted by the stewards or, at a minimum, reduced automatically during the race i.e. the zone reduces by 5 metres per lap or similar. That may make the DRS less potent as the race progresses.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

Tell me, what was nonsensical from my part? You're the one who keeps bringing up the nocturnal habits of the DRS.

You said cars in the past needed to be "stupidly quicker" to overtake. I disagreed with you on that because making cars "stupidly quicker" is what the DRS does. Cars were definitely able to overtake before the DRS.

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Of course cars were able to overtake before, but as I said.... they had to be stupidly quicker to stand a chance of getting past. So for instance you could have a Hamilton on fresh tyres behind a Trulli in an OK car on tyres which were a couple of laps old and your Hamilton had to more or less fry his tyres to give himself a chance of getting past someone who if he were in a Formula Ford race, would get passed far easier. The one second rule means that people aren't getting up behind other drivers just on the basis of DRS or anything.

What kind of sport DOESN'T want the cream to rise to the top? Essentially the way things were previously, the results weren't even decided by RACING, they were decided by drivers driving on their own on a track against the clock in qualifying. Sounds almost to me like rallying..... I LOVE rallying, but I don't want to see F1 cars doing it on a track.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

The DRS zones should probably be dynamically adjusted by the stewards or, at a minimum, reduced automatically during the race i.e. the zone reduces by 5 metres per lap or similar. That may make the DRS less potent as the race progresses.

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See, this is why we need get rid of DRS. We have another crazy idea.

I have noticed that Seb is very good att using DRS.

Is that a reason?

Ilike DRS.

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

I have noticed that Seb is very good att using DRS.

Is that a reason?

Ilike DRS.

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In fairness he's rarely been in a position to use it - he's usually the one in front.

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Originally Posted by wedge

See, this is why we need get rid of DRS. We have another crazy idea.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

OMG we should dress Wedge up in a clown suit.

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See, this is why we need to get rid of Wedge. Daniel had a crazy idea.


Can anyone see the complete lack of logic in my statement? :mark: I call it the "butterfly flapping its wings in the jungles of Madagascar causes Rubin "hurricane" Carter to be wrongfully jailed in the USA" theory.

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Originally Posted by Sonic

^^^

So just to clarify, you are against DRS, but not some other form of 'artificial' engineering solution to permit the following vehicle an opportunity to pass?.

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Sure why not.

I've never seen the DRS as an engineering solution but I'm pretty sure there are engineering solutions to be had if the powers that be allow it.

I think that the "one second" rule is the best thing about the DRS and that could open up many opportunities for future development if they want to use it that way. Give teams a loose engineering brief for use in that "one second" window and see what they come up with. It could be very interesting.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

Sure why not.

I've never seen the DRS as an engineering solution but I'm pretty sure there are engineering solutions to be had if the powers that be allow it.

I think that the "one second" rule is the best thing about the DRS and that could open up many opportunities for future development if they want to use it that way. Give teams a loose engineering brief for use in that "one second" window and see what they come up with. It could be very interesting.

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So again, no ideas, just an irrational dislike of DRS because of one race where it was too much of a factor.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

So again, no ideas, just an irrational dislike of DRS because of one race where it was too much of a factor.

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No, my opinion of the DRS has formed from every race this year equally. Each subsequent race provides further reinforcement.

Turkey for instance told me that they will likely get the zone wrong more often than they will get it right. It may be marginal but how do they truly expect to ever judge whether they got it right? Are journalists and commentators going to decide if the FIA had the zone right or wrong and on what basis will that be decided?

The potency of the DRS is affected by track conditions and pre-race decisions. There appears to be no provision for the stewards to remedy anything in the DRS once a race begins.

In each race the DRS has had issues. I haven't even touched on my concerns about the safety of the DRS.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I think what we want to see is a middle ground. A little bit of DRS to purely overcome the whole turbulence issue would be nice, I don't want DRS doing 100% of the work for the driver :)

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DRS does not overcome the turbulence issue, it has nothing to do with it.

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Originally Posted by Dave B

How about that for a rule: use DRS if you're within a second of the car in front but you must release it the moment you draw level. Could that work?

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How do you police it?

Why not free up the design and set a budget limit?
Most will go straight for ground effects, which are the answer to being able to get close to the car in front. Problem solved.

But no, this smart arse buffoons will never come up with something simple and effective, only with complicated gimmicks that need to be detailed on 30 pages of regulations.

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Originally Posted by Whyzars

No, my opinion of the DRS has formed from every race this year equally. Each subsequent race provides further reinforcement.

Turkey for instance told me that they will likely get the zone wrong more often than they will get it right. It may be marginal but how do they truly expect to ever judge whether they got it right? Are journalists and commentators going to decide if the FIA had the zone right or wrong and on what basis will that be decided?

The potency of the DRS is affected by track conditions and pre-race decisions. There appears to be no provision for the stewards to remedy anything in the DRS once a race begins.

In each race the DRS has had issues. I haven't even touched on my concerns about the safety of the DRS.

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F1 drivers are big boys. I think they can handle DRS. I really don't agree that there've been issues at every track either.

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Originally Posted by ioan

DRS does not overcome the turbulence issue, it has nothing to do with it.

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OK I phrased it wrong. But basically in ye olde days you had to kill your tyres just to try and get past.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

OK I phrased it wrong. But basically in ye olde days you had to kill your tyres just to try and get past.

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Duh! I thought that's what Pirelli was trying to do this season. The DRS is such a contrived piece of garbage, but seeing two guys duke it out due to the fact that their tires are at different levels is fun to watch.

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Originally Posted by ioan

DRS does not overcome the turbulence issue, it has nothing to do with it.

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Greater speed differential helps. This should be with KERS, not DRS.

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Originally Posted by Mia 01

I have noticed that Seb is very good att using DRS.

Is that a reason?

Ilike DRS.

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Challenging for podium position will be too easy for das Crash Kid though I was mightily impressed in trying to fend off Hamilton in China.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

See, this is why we need to get rid of Wedge. Daniel had a crazy idea.


Can anyone see the complete lack of logic in my statement? :mark: I call it the "butterfly flapping its wings in the jungles of Madagascar causes Rubin "hurricane" Carter to be wrongfully jailed in the USA" theory.

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I wasn't personally attacking you. I was attacking the collective ideas of advocating DRS. The more the ideas, deeper the hole is dug. There should be no halfway house. Either keep it for unlimited use or get rid of it.

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Originally Posted by wedge

I wasn't personally attacking you. I was attacking the collective ideas of advocating DRS. The more the ideas, deeper the hole is dug. There should be no halfway house. Either keep it for unlimited use or get rid of it.

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I know, and it wasn't personal back :) I was just trying to show how flawed your logic is/was :) Lets give DRS some time and let the FIA make some sensible tweaks and see where it takes us.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I know, and it wasn't personal back :) I was just trying to show how flawed your logic is/was :) Lets give DRS some time and let the FIA make some sensible tweaks and see where it takes us.

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In China there was a lot of action that didn't involve DRS!

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Originally Posted by wedge

In China there was a lot of action that didn't involve DRS!

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Of course and DRS isn't always needed to make action happen, doesn't mean it's not needed some other times.

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Originally Posted by wedge

In China there was a lot of action that didn't involve DRS!

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But was it? Did DRS allow the driver to close on the straight (but not pass) and then be close enough to challenge around the rest of the lap. Or did it allow that driver to overtake the slower car thus he was in a position to fight with the opposition ahead. i.e. DRS brings more into play than just passing your opposition.

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Originally Posted by Mark

But was it? Did DRS allow the driver to close on the straight (but not pass) and then be close enough to challenge around the rest of the lap. Or did it allow that driver to overtake the slower car thus he was in a position to fight with the opposition ahead. i.e. DRS brings more into play than just passing your opposition.

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I think what wedge means is there was more overtaking going on into, out of and around the slow corners (compliments of the Pirelli tyre wear and compound differences) than there were at the end of the back straight where the Dumb Racing Solution was active. China was a great advert of how gimmicky the overtaking the Dumb Racing Solution provides is compared to the other overtaking we saw that fine Sunday.

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

I think what wedge means is there was more overtaking going on into, out of and around the slow corners (compliments of the Pirelli tyre wear and compound differences) than there were at the end of the back straight where the Dumb Racing Solution was active. China was a great advert of how gimmicky the overtaking the Dumb Racing Solution provides is compared to the other overtaking we saw that fine Sunday.

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Different tracks will need different things to make overtaking possible.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Different tracks will need different things to make overtaking possible.

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Yes, but we don't need DRS ;)

I heard that DRS won't be used at Monaco as it is not safe. If this is true, DRS is even further tainted in my eyes :down:

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Yes, but we don't need DRS ;)

I heard that DRS won't be used at Monaco as it is not safe. If this is true, DRS is even further tainted in my eyes :down:

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By your logic, the normal steering racks that they use on normal tracks are unsafe because they don't use them in Monaco.

They are talking about using it in the tunnel .

Why wouldn't that be a good idea ?

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Originally Posted by Daniel

By your logic, the normal steering racks that they use on normal tracks are unsafe because they don't use them in Monaco.

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Thats only because of one corner on the Monaco circuit that is too tight to turn around with the standard rack!

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

They are talking about using it in the tunnel .

Why wouldn't that be a good idea ?

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Because DRS is a bad idea to start with :p :

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Because DRS is a bad idea to start with :p :

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You are preaching to the choir , sir .
“The overtaking we saw was more from tyre-performance difference than DRS." -Alonso .

By the way , it's "Dopey Racing System" , not "Dumb" .

Dump this Ridiculous System .
Doesn't Really make Sense .


"

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Originally Posted by 555-04Q2

Thats only because of one corner on the Monaco circuit that is too tight to turn around with the standard rack!

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Not apply that logic to Monaco with DRS in mind.....