Apparently not!Quote:
Originally Posted by Miika
Apparently not!Quote:
Originally Posted by Miika
You have missed the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
This is different compairing to the normal "cruising to finnish 4th."
It's hard to be Mikko fan, but he will win Mexico. :s mokin:
OUCH !!! What have you done MIKKO ???? All that time lost in a snow wall on SS2 in Sweden... ;(
No I took your point but whether crashing or cruising the poor guy just appears not to be able to produce a competitive drive. He's being beaten on snow by Ogier!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise
As for Mexico do you think for one moment that VW haven't got high altitude running for their engine perfect? If Ogier is quicker on Snow how much quicker is he going to be on gravel?
That was December test forQuote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
:rolleyes:
A distraught Hirvonen told MAXRALLY in Hagfors: “Technically, it was the most beautiful roll ever – I think the mechanics will thank me for this, there is no damage at all!
Hirvonen’s co-driver Jarmo Lehtinen added: “When we got out of the car, the snow was right up to the waist. We had to dig and dig all of the time. In the end about seven people came, but we had only one spade, so we were taking it in turns.”
MAXRALLY - The beautiful roll
The Mexicio win was a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
I think Hirvonen has now "the Petter winning pace" aka no wins in 7 seasons.
And I'm afraid Ogier has "the Loeb winning pace" aka taking 9 concecutive titles.
Liked to be wrong on both of the above.
:up: I'm afraid that you are right on the first point and share your hope for the second - I'm looking forward to a period of close competition between 6 or 7 drivers but it looks ominous in terms of the VW performanceQuote:
Originally Posted by Mise
I am afraid the future will prove you right. I wish Mikko could give Ogier a good fight.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mise
I am still heart broken that we will never have Seb L. vs. Seb O. in 2 different teams. If Ogier become WC, the fact to have never beat Loeb on a season will be always lesser his achievement.
What is Ogier's fault that Loeb runs away like a coward? What lesser achievment are you talking about when Loeb's last 5 titles are totally meaningless and he almost lost 2 of them from nothing?Quote:
Originally Posted by xavier
I understand completely the feeling of disliking Loeb and his accomplishments for having made the competition boring. But he made the competition boring by being the absolute best bar none for a decade. You say five titles don't count. Why? Because the competition was not as good as him? That's logical.Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
And calling him a coward running away makes you look even more senseless and illogical about Loeb. This isn't boxing. It's racing. There will always be a new competitor. By your conditions Ogier is a coward not to face Paolo Nobre and Daniel Oliveira last year. And Ogier is obviously a huge wimp not to ever compete with Gronholm, Makinen, Sainz, McRae and all the champions Loeb fought with and beat. So any championships Ogier ever wins will also "mean nothing" because he didn't have a one-on-one fight with every good driver you can think of in the WRC, past and future. And what if Ogier retires before facing a full season against whoever becomes champion later? Does that make him weak and his accomplishment meaningless?
Sorry to go offtopic but seriously, you can dislike Loeb for what the sport became while he reigned but you will never convince anyone that Loeb isn't the best driver of the past decade. Accepting that doesn't mean you have to like him!
To bring Hirvonen into this, I personally still think he has a decent chance to fight Ogier. I certainly hope so to prevent another multi-year domination. Some real fights are always good.
Who else thinks 2013 could be a repeat of 2010 for Mikko. Pushing to hard and crashing or just not on the pace? Should be interesting come Mexico
He didnt face them because he is MAN with BALLS and left the Citroen liars at the end of 2011.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera
We will think about it when that time comes.Quote:
what if Ogier retires before facing a full season against whoever becomes champion later? Does that make him weak and his accomplishment meaningless?
The best driver in a factory team of the past decade - of course I agree with this. And I never said he ruined anything!!Quote:
Sorry to go offtopic but seriously, you can dislike Loeb for what the sport became while he reigned but you will never convince anyone that Loeb isn't the best driver of the past decade. Accepting that doesn't mean you have to like him!
I hope even stronger than you to see different winner at every rally and 3-4 drivers in less than a minute in the final overalls!Quote:
I certainly hope so to prevent another multi-year domination. Some real fights are always good.
Wait till Mexico to make a proper judgement but it looks like Mikko is trying too hard. I have been blown away by the Polo-Ogier combination, if Ogier wins Mexico I would suggest we are looking at a period of domination again.Quote:
Originally Posted by 6789
Loeb is not a coward because he's retiring, nobody can go on forever. he's a coward because of the events in the citroen team in 2011. he showed back then, that he can't handle a team mate who's just as quick or perhaps even quicker. instead of trying to beat him fair and square, he just enforced teamorders and kicked him out of the team.Quote:
Originally Posted by kirungi okwogera
It was the coward Loeb of 1-Sweden, 2-Mexico, 3-Portugal, 4-Jordan, 5-Sardegna, 6-Argentina or the coward Ogier (with the help of Quesnel and Smeets who is in VW now) of 7-Acropolis that shuted down the tracking in the night stage and lied afterwards in public that he didn't do any tactic? When you abuse the internal line of competition to splitting completely the team to factions, be prepared some of the two will be ousted (Allen-Rohl-Fiat, Senna-Prost-McLaren, McRae-Sainz-Subaru, Alonso-Hamilton-McLaren). As eventually happened they all three got kicked out at the end of the year.Quote:
Originally Posted by denkimi
dont bother with antiLoeb people. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by awake27
Well well, even with clever tactical move Mikko couldn't take points on the PS in Sweden. Tells all about his pace. Lots of 4th place's in gravel this year, on tarmac not even that...
Indeed, is already looking to be a troubled year to Mikko... but specially for Citroen.
In my opinion, they crucially failed (or were "unlucky") in 2 specific time frames:
- Loeb/Ogier: if they had kept Ogier, he would now take Loeb's place and continue to provide Citroen a consistent winning form... but Loeb wasn't retiring yet and Ogier mentality isn't the one to settle down and wait.
- Loeb retirement/replacement: when they finally had to find a replacement there wasn't anyone fast and stable enough... so they had to play safe and make a "points gatherer" team for both driver's and manufacturer's championship, Mikko for consistency points on snow and gravel and Sordo for filling the gap on tarmac. I have a hard time to believe that Citroen thought Mikko was a fast driver to dominate and win a lot of rallies (or maybe they thought their car was so much better, that they could still reign).
The major problem is that Mikko isn't providing what is at least expected of him: points and podium places, and that is quite a problem, considering his vast experience in WRC and expertise in snowy conditions (these should be good events for good points). He spent all weekend saying we was betting all-in for Power Stage, for those points, and he didn't even get one, not even with tactics. I bet team confidence isn't very high at this moment. Loeb saved the day/weekend for the team and diverged attentions from the disaster weekend for both official drivers... and even Seb wasn't perfect and able to react to Ogier's massive determination.
It's only the second round of the championship, maybe things get a bit different later on, but I think this year will be Yves Matton constantly "facepalming", instead of Malcolm Wilson(who will actually be glad to have gambled on new drivers who are looking good so far for points and wins).
2012 was exactly what he did after all. Just to explode this one. But on topic, Hirvonen isn't winning material imho. His only chance is this year in condition Polo is way behind pace of Citroen as most of the world believed not far long. After what we saw what happened here in Sweden, hard times are wating for him and Citroen.Quote:
Originally Posted by MAXLD
For me, Mikko just has to win Mexico! I've been waiting long enough for his championship year.
Nobody get me wrong I like Ogier, but am I the only one remembering him going out time after time when leading ralllies in the past? That may be over now, it may have been a lot to do with his psychological state at Citroen, it may though be as I suspect that Ogier has an issue with keeping on the road when controlling the pace from the front. When he gets it right you get results like Sweden, but in the past he did that sometimes, other times not. In all though I'm waiting for Mexico before feeling that the Driver's Championship 2013 is already decided. :)
I completely agree, I think in Mexico we will see where the championship contenders lie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprocket
Ostberg has potential this year and so too Mikko, I just hope that they can take the fight to Oiger if the VW is as quick as it has been already.
To me the next two rallies will reveal if Mikko can fight for this championship. I tend to doubt it but I will wait until after these two. If Ogier beats him in both and shows the ability to control himself then it looks bad for Mikko in my opinion.
Game over.
He can say what he likes, Ogier will punish him all year long regardless.
maybe it is/was the same Loeb factor that crushed Duval, driving over the limit to menthal madness to show they are equal to Loeb. Ogier has now the guarentee that the team supports him fully, so he can stay within his limitQuote:
Originally Posted by Sprocket
Quote:
Originally Posted by stefanvv
He is really starting to feel the pressure. I feel bad for him to a certain extent; I don't feel that he is a natural number 1 driver, yet here he is, not only in that position, but trying to fill the shoes of one of the best drivers of all time. It also appears that Citroen themselves are beginning to realise that they may have made a mistake.
You could be right, the 'new' Ogier, as we are now seeing driving for VW, does seem a different man, controlled and calm at the front. Deep down I'm expecting Ogier to run away with the drivers title. My heart though wants to see a fight this season to the end and Mikko up there in the mix. If the sport ends up dominated by one driver one manufacturer for the next 5 or so years, it seems to me nobody wins!Quote:
Originally Posted by alleskids
I agree Sprocket. This is the first season since about 2004/5 that we could have a genuine fight for the title. My gut tells me that VW will be dominant for the few years but I want them not to have it all their own way this year. I am just not sure who in the current field could do that. I do not want to see a 'procession of drivers' following a Sebastien like we have seen in recent years.
I also agree with Sprocket. The marks of the future season are worrying and I honestly have to admit I didn't expect Ogier to be this strong. I hoped for a good season competingwise but it may be that it'll only happen in tarmac rallies where Sordo is the one to put pressure to Ogier. Of course this is the start of the season and the old wisdom say anything can happen in rallying. But if we be realistic, the fire in Mikko's eyes has faded away and with the attitude he has, is not the one to challange Ogier who is overly confident with the biggest balls right this moment. I only hope Jari-Matti will find a suitable setting to Polo and drive for the win. Or Östberg or any other for that matter. Otherwise this could be another "dull" season and nothing has really changed.
Wholly cow, now he said in the public that he was happy with his driving in Mexico? WTF, he loses over three minutes and is HAPPY? And thinks its the car? Come on, the fault is between the steeringwheel and the seat.
Actually the factor everyone is overlooking, and that I suspect is the reality, is that VW have perfected the engine management for altitude and the car was just so superior in speed that Ogier was quick and had something to spare. JML did a damn good set of times as a sweeper too.
Not a point I missed, I did wonder if things would be more even in Portugal, then I remembered Sweden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory
Whatever it is I've no doubt the VW is just faster than either Fiesta or Citroen. Not sure about the JML times, I was watching the splits and I do not think he was faster than Hirvonen. Not much sweeping either, he swapped position to test mid-field, times were about the same apart from stages where Hirovonen obviously backed off for tactical reasons. I end up with thinking the VW is fast, but Ogier is the man to drive it this season.
Another pathetic performance from Mikko in Greece. Ok, sme problems, but not a single proper time.
What would it take to convince Loeb to replace Mikko for the rest of the season?
True.Quote:
Originally Posted by COD
Ogier's absence.Quote:
Originally Posted by COD
This is getting close to the SL vs.... thread and not so much about Mikko :) ...but then there isn't much left to say. Maybe a poll on whether this thread should be closed?Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSon
No need to close topics like these I think, at the end of the season some member will still have the need to express their disappointment about his pace. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mintexmemory