Pirelli

Well the new 'hard tire' did hold as much as the soft ones until recently so much about the planed 30 laps.

Could you fix that last post , my friend .
I didn't understand your point there .

If numerous links and quotes that happened before the season start aren't enough, I'm more than happy to accept that Ioan simply chooses to follow the untrue version of reality. :)

It's well documented what Pirelli were asked to do, and it was before the start of the season.

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Originally Posted by ioan

I accept that.
Will you lot accept that I do not believe the hogwash?
Doesn't look like it, reading this thread. I wonder if it has to do with trolling around or somethings else, worse than it.

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So you accept that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres but you won't believe it because it's "hogwash"? :confused:

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

So you accept that Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres but you won't believe it because it's "hogwash"? :confused:

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I'm confused too. It's not difficult, is it? Pirelli were asked to make less durable racing tyres, which they did. Some people couldn't follow the more complicated race strategies which we saw at the beginning of the season. Some people couldn't understand the concept that it doesn't automatically mean their road tyres are rubbish. A rival company exploited this perception. Pirelli are reacting.

What's "hogwash" about any of that? :s

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Originally Posted by Dave B

I'm confused too. It's not difficult, is it? Pirelli were asked to make less durable racing tyres, which they did. Some people couldn't follow the more complicated race strategies which we saw at the beginning of the season. Some people couldn't understand the concept that it doesn't automatically mean their road tyres are rubbish. A rival company exploited this perception. Pirelli are reacting.

What's "hogwash" about any of that? :s

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Very concise summing up Dave.

Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres and they have. I don't see what's so difficult about that. Pirelli themselves have said that making tyres to last over a GP distance would have been much easier than what they were asked to do.

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Originally Posted by Mark

Pirelli were asked to make less durable tyres and they have. I don't see what's so difficult about that. Pirelli themselves have said that making tyres to last over a GP distance would have been much easier than what they were asked to do.

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Each to his own I guess.

one thing i did notice over the German GP was Pirelli saying that the soft tyre was the very same soft they had at the start of the year and it was a combination of the cool conditions and the less abraisive track surface menaing the tyres lasted longer here, plus the fact the teams and drivers have adapted to set the cars up and drive to maximise the performance of the tyres for a longer period

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Originally Posted by Robinho

one thing i did notice over the German GP was Pirelli saying that the soft tyre was the very same soft they had at the start of the year and it was a combination of the cool conditions and the less abraisive track surface menaing the tyres lasted longer here, plus the fact the teams and drivers have adapted to set the cars up and drive to maximise the performance of the tyres for a longer period

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Very good point. Martin Brundle commented how little camber the teams were now running on the rears to minimize wear.

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Originally Posted by Robinho

one thing i did notice over the German GP was Pirelli saying that the soft tyre was the very same soft they had at the start of the year and it was a combination of the cool conditions and the less abraisive track surface menaing the tyres lasted longer here, plus the fact the teams and drivers have adapted to set the cars up and drive to maximise the performance of the tyres for a longer period

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The soft tyres are fine in cool conditions, more vulnerable in warm conditions and wear out quicker.

I was surprised how well the mediums worked. A single step change is enough to provide workable alternate strategy. Teams' simulations are apparently saying 2-stopper are do-able.

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Originally Posted by wedge

The soft tyres are fine in cool conditions, more vulnerable in warm conditions and wear out quicker.

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IIRC, this was NOT the case in pre season testing....

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Originally Posted by ioan

Each to his own I guess.

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Well no, it's not a matter of opinion.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

IIRC, this was NOT the case in pre season testing....

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Where and when? I think it was Barcelona where there was rain and then a cool, green conditions threw a curveball.

Australia was cool and the tyres were fine. Didn't see that many marbles mid race. Contrast that with Turkey and Spain - the former became a 4-stopper.

Also I seem to remember Alonso was taking it easy on his outlaps in Barcelona and Valencia because he didn't want to overheat the top layer and ruin the tyres for the rest of the stint - and Ferrari is supposed to be kinder to its tyres.

I am still enjoying the tyre aspect this season, and for me above the politics, advertising issues is that I find it interesting and fun.

However I would prefer a tyre war, as I think that adds a different element.

I loved the battle between Bridgestone and Michelin.

I know some will argue if another tyre manufacturer came in then Pirelli would get stuffed, but my comment on tyre war is a general one. Two tyre makers in F1 make for competative F1.

Pirelli looking at qualy tyres again. Qualifying tyres could return to Formula 1 next season - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Looks like Pirelli will ditch the hard compound, replace it with the current 'medium' with 'hard' and come up with a new medium compound.

Pirelli is set to stop using its hardest compound for the rest of the season - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Cue more conspiracy theories. Ioan, is Osama Bin Laden hiding in the same house as Elvis Presley and Bruce Lee?

Terrible, terrible idea. So F1 is still attempting to 'control' costs but specialist qually tires that get thrown away after a few laps are coming back?

Changing the hard compound I can see, as it almost appears to be too hard for the intended purposes, and is lasting longer than anticipated.

I'm not really sure how to feel about the qually tires. It is great knowing that all cars end up on the grid in more of less the order of capability that day, and not strategy. But that qually strategy has grown on me over this year, with the better drivers being able to conserve more soft tires for the race.

For now though, it simply appears to be an option thrown out for the teams and/or FIA to decide on. It's not a done deal unless they want to use them, which is probably the best way to introduce it.

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Originally Posted by I am evil Homer

Terrible, terrible idea. So F1 is still attempting to 'control' costs but specialist qually tires that get thrown away after a few laps are coming back?

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Tbh the whole idea about controlling costs with tyre regs is ridiculous. There are FAR bigger costs involved in F1 than tyres, tbh bringing back the old tyre regs would probably add very little in terms of costs.

Pirelli again changing something about their tyres in yet another attempt to save face? Who would have thought! :laugh:

Qualifying tyres? Well they need not bother much with the design, their current line up is as close as you can get to a qualifying tire! :rotflmao:

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Originally Posted by henners88

Pirelli are doing a great job as far as I am concerned.

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Indeed - I was quite vocal as to the suitability of Pirelli during pre-season testing, not only based on their previous performance in F1, but because the degradation in the tests was extreme, and it was a concern as to the suitability of the tyres for the task.

However, the racing has, without doubt, been enhanced by the use of Pirelli tyres, and the sport has been the better for it IMHO.

Pirelli are doing a fantastic job this season :up:

They were given a mandate by the FIA, and not only have they met it, I suspect they have exceeded all expectations anyone had.

And now they are pointing the finger to RBR for the soft tire blistering problem:

Pirelli points finger at Red Bull over Spa tyre controversy - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

Strange how Alonso's and Button's front left tire was also blistering just like on the RBRs.

What is highly concerning is what Newey mentions at the end of that article:

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Originally Posted by autosport.com

Red Bull Racing technical chief Adrian Newey admitted that his outfit had been worried about the tyre situation in the build-up to the race.

Speaking to the BBC about how he felt, he said: "I have to say, it is one of the scariest races I have been involved in ever. It is heart-in-the-mouth stuff, because first and foremost our duty of care is to the drivers' safety, and you are trying to make that call or making sure the car is safe while not excessively handicapping ourselves from a performance point of view.

"I found it quite a difficult judgement to make, and at the end of the race I was very relieved that both our drivers were safe."

"Around 5pm yesterday evening Pirelli came to us and said that having looked at our tyres from qualifying they were concerned about the safety of the tyres and that they could be suffering structural damage in the junction between the sidewall and the tread, and felt that failure of the tyre could be imminent on both cars," he added. "It was very concerning... We then entered into a lot of debate with Pirelli about what we should do. They recommended that higher front pressure would make the tyre safer, as would reduced camber – but without permission from the FIA reducing the front camber would be in breach of parc ferme regulations, so we would have to start from the pitlane."

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Pirelli should get their crap together before someone get's a huge problem due to their sub-par tires.
Looks like if they would be running at the Indianapolis track this tire wouldn't hold more then 1 or 2 laps. :down:

To be fair, weren't RBR running their tyres with more camber than Pirelli spec for the tyres?

We didn't see any failures though, but I'd be interested to see just how close we got to failures......

Seen worse

In the late 90s Goodyear tyres were terrible in F1 and Indycar. With blisters the tyres completely dropped off which wasn't quite the case at Spa this year.

I seem to remember one race where Schumi had a tyre failure due to blistered Goodyears.

"Plus we all know what a liar Fred and Ferrari are. Damn cheats they are."

You mean more than McLaren and LH?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Sorry I'm trying to find the connection in the previous posts that made you say that? Has anyone actually accused Alonso and Ferrari of being cheats for you to respond with what looks like an unconnected POV? :confused: :confused:

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I completely agree Henners, it's about as relevant to this thread as your comment on the Webber thread about Hamilton getting criticised :laugh:

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Originally Posted by henners88

Well there you go again proving that my comment in your new thread is correct. I compared two drivers. No discussion of cheating has taken place here so the comment was unrelated!

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Henners, I actually agree with you that this post by mstillhere seems to be right out of the blue, but do you not see it as being a teeny little bit strange to feel the need to go further than calling Webber's overtake Hamiltonesque (fair comment) and go on to complain about how people would have theoretically criticised Hamilton for doing the same thing? It wasn't meant to be yet another Hamilton persecution thread and lets leave it there.

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Originally Posted by henners88

Lets leave it there.

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:up:

Maybe Red Bull should run the tires within the constraints of the setup allowances?

Martin Whitmarsh also stated that Red Bull had pushed the setup too far. Though his driver finished in third, he didn't blame the tires.

Horner himself said that the lack of dry running in practice sessions combined with the unique forces on the tires at Spa were a very large contributing factor.



And unlike the situation at Indy, there were no failure pitching someone into a wall at high speed.

No real story to read here. Blistering tires on a Formula 1 car. This must be a first right?

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Originally Posted by henners88

Sorry I'm trying to find the connection in the previous posts that made you say that? Has anyone actually accused Alonso and Ferrari of being cheats for you to respond with what looks like an unconnected POV? :confused: :confused:

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My comment is a direct answer to a rather naive post made by one of the gentlemen hanging around here (Mr. Alcatraz on the very 1st page of this thread). It was a rather gratuitous, chip shot and really out of the place. it was addressed just for the record.

As far as Pirelli goes IMO this has been a rather strange championship with a tire company mainly asked to make chip tires that wear off sooo quickly that the teams would be forced to make several tire changes during a GP. (Ecclestone's idea) And all that to improve the show. Pirelli is trying to cope with the various safety issues caused by these horrible tires but when you are looking at Pirelli as the main culprit you are definetly wasting your time.

So, a team tries to run a tyre out of safe parameters and the Tyre manufacturer says it's unsafe. Shock horror. Must be Pirelli's fault :laugh:

If you substituted RBR for McLaren in this story, ioans response would probably have been... "Whitmarsh trying to murder his drivers!!" :D

I have to agree knock on. No way is that Pirelli's fault.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

No real story to read here. Blistering tires on a Formula 1 car. This must be a first right?

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:up:

Been a long time since we've seen blistered tyres in F1.

Pirelli to request tyre rule change for 2012 to reduce wastage - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

The cheaper deal (for F1) appears to be a little too expensive for Pirelli?

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Pirelli to request tyre rule change for 2012 to reduce wastage - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

The cheaper deal (for F1) appears to be a little to expensive for Pirelli?

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Whilst I will have to annoyingly admit that Pirelli seem have done a decent enough job in F1 this year, I really don't feel this is the sort of company you want in F1. F1 is expensive and IMHO we should have a sport where the tyre companies have to bring loads of different compounds of tyres to each race simply to compete with the other tyremaker/s. But back to Pirelli, F1 is expensive and if they think they've got a brand that belongs in F1 then they should bloody well do what is asked of them.

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Originally Posted by SGWilko

Pirelli to request tyre rule change for 2012 to reduce wastage - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com

The cheaper deal (for F1) appears to be a little too expensive for Pirelli?

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They are crap and they make it a virtue on top of it.
On they're own they requested many more changes than all teams together during this season.
Pretty sure most teams would kick them out without second thoughts if they could chose a professional supplier.

Bugger off Pirelli, this is not your kindergarten.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Whilst I will have to annoyingly admit that Pirelli seem have done a decent enough job in F1 this year, I really don't feel this is the sort of company you want in F1. F1 is expensive and IMHO we should have a sport where the tyre companies have to bring loads of different compounds of tyres to each race simply to compete with the other tyremaker/s. But back to Pirelli, F1 is expensive and if they think they've got a brand that belongs in F1 then they should bloody well do what is asked of them.

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Jeeez, I thought it's supposed to be expensinve because they spend money trying to build fast cars not to carry around tires noone uses... that's just ridiculous... perhaps next time the tire supplier should be requiered to have some amount of gold in their tires :laugh:

So what happened Ioan? Did your entire family died in a car crash caused by pirelli tyres because otherwise this is quite abnormal.

ioan's got a bee in his bonnet about Pirelli and true to form, will doggedly stick to his opinion no matter what evidence is to the contrary in the unshakable belief that if he continues to state his opinion over, and over, and over again, it may magically become fact.