Student Riots

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

I still don't understand the point you are trying to make here. I attended a good university, got a good degree classification as a result and later good job but I still consider 98% of my degree to be a waste of time after taking professional exams. In effect there is no difference between my degree and your so called worthless degrees.

In theory shouldn't the increase in student fee's reduce the number of so called 'worthless degrees' that university's are going to offer anyway? £27,000's worth of fees is definately going to make any potential university applicant think longer and harder about what courses they are going to apply for. If universities are struggling for cash, the first thing they should look at is the student uptake of courses and how much they cost to run. If a course really isn't viable they should remove it.

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Not to worry, at least it gave you the opportunity to mention your degree again.

Sorry state if you view accountancy from a decent red brick uni as on a par with Peace Studies from the local Poly, and could you do the job you do now with Peace Studies?

But if the degree and/or student are that useless then they won't have to pay a penny back, so those that are just going for a doss will plump for such courses.

But if it dispenses with these pointless degrees then all the better, just makes the Coalition's ideas even better.

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

I still don't understand the point you are trying to make here. I attended a good university, got a good degree classification as a result and later good job but I still consider 98% of my degree to be a waste of time after taking professional exams.

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The same could be said of much that one studies at school. I, for example, consider it a complete waste of time for most people, unless they choose to, to have to carry on doing maths once they know how to add, subtract, multiply, divide, work out fractions/percentages and the other basics. GCSE maths was, for me, a pointless exercise. We would, in my opinion, be much better off with a more flexible educational system as a whole, ensuring that people really know the essentials but don't have to spend time on those subjects they are never going to use again. Off topic, I know, but not unrelated.

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

In theory shouldn't the increase in student fee's reduce the number of so called 'worthless degrees' that university's are going to offer anyway? £27,000's worth of fees is definately going to make any potential university applicant think longer and harder about what courses they are going to apply for. If universities are struggling for cash, the first thing they should look at is the student uptake of courses and how much they cost to run. If a course really isn't viable they should remove it.

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Therein lies the paradox. These courses already wouldn't exist unless they were viable, and by that I mean well-subscribed and popular. It's the more traditional subjects that are being squeezed. The contradiction here is that this is nothing less than a free market, yet here again we see some of those on the right who believe in a free market suggesting that such courses shouldn't be allowed to exist.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

But if it dispenses with these pointless degrees then all the better, just makes the Coalition's ideas even better.

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But it won't, because, as I said in my post above, these courses would be cancelled if take-up wasn't sufficient. The fact they exist and the fact they attract students is down to the sort of free market principles that you presumably support to the hilt.

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Originally Posted by skc

Elite from an educational point of view. It's also true that elite reflects social standing, earning potential and career. More people from the "elite" have degrees than those in working class positions.
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I’m still not grasping this concept. To suggest the association of university education to social class is absurd. Perhaps “elite” is a poor choice of words?

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Originally Posted by skc

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I thought this was a given otherwise why would people strive to go to Uni? Honestly, I can accept people having different views but do we have to go so "Janet and John"?...

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Nope, still not grasping what you’re trying to say. People go to university to pursue a chosen profession, a by-product of which may be a higher income bracket.
What’s “Janet and John”? :confused:

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Originally Posted by skc

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100% agree and that is why these proposals are so fair. It allows anyone, regardless of social position, to compete based on academic achievement. When has that ever happened before?...

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As far as I know enrollment always has, and still is, based on academic qualifications.

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Originally Posted by skc

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People from an academic background tend to occupy positions where they define policy such as politicians. Why should people with working calss jobs, people that tend to not have the privilidge and trappings of society, why should they have to pay for the elite.
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Politicians and policy-makers are voted into office by all eligible voters, regardless of class. “People with working class jobs” are not paying for the “elite”, they are paying for the benefits of a society that makes readily available the services that higher education provides.

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Originally Posted by skc

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Society as a whole benefit from everyone that contributes. Doctors and street sweepers or are you saying just because you don't have a degree means you contribute less to society?...

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Society benefits from all services. As has been mentioned in this thread, a balance of professions is required to sustain a viable society.

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Originally Posted by skc

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We all support higher education. All I suggest (quite uncomprehensibly it seems) is that those that get a financial benefit from a university degree should pay a small proportion of that benefit to ensure the system remains viable.

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And as has been said numerous times, those with a university degree do pay; from being in a higher tax bracket, not to mention the personal “cost” of years of study to obtain the degree.

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Originally Posted by schmenke

I’m still not grasping this concept. To suggest the association of university education to social class is absurd. Perhaps “elite” is a poor choice of words?

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There have traditionally been problems in the UK in terms of those from what might loosely be termed working-class backgrounds getting into university. Largely, this has to do with the poor standard of education they get prior to the age of 18 leading to them not getting grades sufficient for university entrance, and that is where inequalities need to be addressed. Universities in Britain have made massive progress since the days when they were reserved for the offspring of the middle and upper classes.

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Originally Posted by schmenke

Society benefits from all services. As has been mentioned in this thread, a balance of professions is required to sustain a viable society.

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Quite right.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

There have traditionally been problems in the UK in terms of those from what might loosely be termed working-class backgrounds getting into university. Largely, this has to do with the poor standard of education they get prior to the age of 18 leading to them not getting grades sufficient for university entrance, and that is where inequalities need to be addressed. Universities in Britain have made massive progress since the days when they were reserved for the offspring of the middle and upper classes.

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Sometimes it's also a crutch for those less intelligent people who simply aren't destined for university as well as being as you say, a throwback to the days when education at a university was actually reserved for those of the higher classes.

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Originally Posted by skc

Society as a whole benefit from everyone that contributes. Doctors and street sweepers or are you saying just because you don't have a degree means you contribute less to society?

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Before 1992 there were such things as Polytechnics which which issued certificates for a lot of practical trades. The then Major Government brought them under the auspices of the university system.
Society does need tradies as much as it needs doctors. Plumbers, gasfitters, carpenters, electricians all contribute to society. By the same token, those people need to be qualified enough to do their job and ensure that they don't accidentally kill themselves or other people.

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Originally Posted by Hondo

In general:

Students make excellent protesters because they are enthusiastic, strong and stupid. They do not yet have enough real life experience in the fine art of self support to appreciate the flaws in the Utopian philosophies they were taught in school.

Every time a protest gets out of hand, it is blamed on a "small group of outside agitators". Bullcrap. I never see protesters trying to restrain these agitators and I don't see the protesters stopping their protest and going home once the agitators have started. They feed on each other.

Nobody cares about your protest. When you cause damage to public and private property and interfere with everyday comings and goings you lose the sympathy of the common citizen. The politician doesn't care as long as he gets re-elected to office.

Get used to it. This is merely the tip of the iceberg. Governments can no longer sustain all the social expenditures and riots of this kind will be happening everywhere. While these budget cuts are a start, in truth, massive chunks of government need to be done away with.

You've got to hand it to the Brits. When they show up to a protest they always have very nice, uniform, professionally done signs mounted on new, clean sticks.

In Specific:

I see no reason why someone who stands to benefit the most from an advanced degree shouldn't be expected to contribute more towards obtaining that degree. I don't know too many people that expect to get a Ferrari for the same price as a Ford even though in general use they serve the same purpose.

Jacking the royals was a really bad idea.

As usual, the "students" have done themselves no favors.

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You could have simply stated that you don't like students, it would have been more effective.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Not to worry, at least it gave you the opportunity to mention your degree again.

Sorry state if you view accountancy from a decent red brick uni as on a par with Peace Studies from the local Poly, and could you do the job you do now with Peace Studies?

But if the degree and/or student are that useless then they won't have to pay a penny back, so those that are just going for a doss will plump for such courses.

But if it dispenses with these pointless degrees then all the better, just makes the Coalition's ideas even better.

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Maybe your jealous because you don't have a degree. :p Incidently, I could do my job now if I had a degree in Peace Studies. No employer I have ever worked for has openly discriminated on degree course but they have discriminated on degree classification. Does it happen? I don't know, I've not been the one making decisions on whom to employ.

Why are you just focusing on the people you consider to be thick and those who you consider just to be going for a doss. There are going to be people who do not pay their fees back regardless of what degree course they do and where they do it. Some women for example may choose to have a family. They may be in the position when taking account of their partners income that they do not have to go out to work or they may just work part time and will not therefore pay any fees back due to them not earning £21k per annum.

I don't think I should open up the can of worm's that relates to student loans. I have actually paid off my student loan but if I didn't earn £15k per annum I wouldnt need to pay it back. If I hadn't paid it off by state retirement age it would get written off anyway. You can get a student moan regardless of degree course or university you go. It doesn't even matter of you don't complete the course either..... Ponder that for a while. Oh it will make your blood boil. :p

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Originally Posted by skc

Every child in this country is entitled to a level of education. That level allows them to complete GCSE's, A-Levels and vocational courses.

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Why stop there?!
The only answer to this question is because you stopped there. Am I right?
If everyone though like you than the world would be populated only by people with medium and low qualification that can hardly do more than sustain the present level of development. Also what would be the level of development without the researchers who helped the society evolve so far?

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Originally Posted by Hondo

In general:

Students make excellent protesters because they are enthusiastic, strong and stupid. They do not yet have enough real life experience in the fine art of self support to appreciate the flaws in the Utopian philosophies they were taught in school.

Every time a protest gets out of hand, it is blamed on a "small group of outside agitators". Bullcrap. I never see protesters trying to restrain these agitators and I don't see the protesters stopping their protest and going home once the agitators have started. They feed on each other.

Nobody cares about your protest. When you cause damage to public and private property and interfere with everyday comings and goings you lose the sympathy of the common citizen. The politician doesn't care as long as he gets re-elected to office.

Get used to it. This is merely the tip of the iceberg. Governments can no longer sustain all the social expenditures and riots of this kind will be happening everywhere. While these budget cuts are a start, in truth, massive chunks of government need to be done away with.

You've got to hand it to the Brits. When they show up to a protest they always have very nice, uniform, professionally done signs mounted on new, clean sticks.

In Specific:

I see no reason why someone who stands to benefit the most from an advanced degree shouldn't be expected to contribute more towards obtaining that degree. I don't know too many people that expect to get a Ferrari for the same price as a Ford even though in general use they serve the same purpose.

Jacking the royals was a really bad idea.

As usual, the "students" have done themselves no favors.

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One question. Did you go to university?

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Not to worry, at least it gave you the opportunity to mention your degree again.

Sorry state if you view accountancy from a decent red brick uni as on a par with Peace Studies from the local Poly, and could you do the job you do now with Peace Studies?

But if the degree and/or student are that useless then they won't have to pay a penny back, so those that are just going for a doss will plump for such courses.

But if it dispenses with these pointless degrees then all the better, just makes the Coalition's ideas even better.

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Maybe your jealous because you don't have a degree. :p Incidently, I could do my job now if I had a degree in Peace Studies. No employer I have ever worked for has openly discriminated on degree course but they have discriminated on degree classification. Does it happen? I don't know, I've not been the one making decisions on whom to employ.

Why are you just focusing on the people you consider to be thick and those who you consider just to be going for a doss. There are going to be people who do not pay their fees back regardless of what degree course they do and where they do it. Some women for example may choose to have a family. They may be in the position taking account of their partners income that they do not have to go out to work or they may just work part time and will not therefore pay any fees back due to them not earning £21k per annum.

I don't think I should open up the can of worm's that relates to student loans. I have actually paid off my student loan but if I didn't earn £15k per annum I wouldnt need to pay it back. If I hadn't paid it off by state retirement age it would get written off anyway. You can get a student loan regardless of degree course or university you go or your personal financial circumstances. It doesn't even matter of you don't complete the course either..... Ponder that for a while. Oh it will make your blood boil. :p

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

Maybe your jealous because you don't have a degree.

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This, I feel, is at the root of many of the comments we're reading here in favour of the Government's stance. Most, I would hazard a guess (as I see ioan has done in his most recent post), didn't go to university. They may not think or admit any jealousy, but one can sense a degree of it — the same sort of people who say, so tiresomely, things like 'the only university you need to go to is the university of life'. In reality, that's the one you go to if you're not bright enough. That or the University of Luton, which accepts some appalling percentage of its students through the clearing system.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Where on earth does this notion that a university education conveys upon a person 'privilege' and 'trappings' stem from?

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Most probably from an inferiority complex, which is sometimes part of the human nature and we have to accept its manifestation.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

This, I feel, is at the root of many of the comments we're reading here in favour of the Government's stance. Most, I would hazard a guess (as I see ioan has done in his most recent post), didn't go to university. They may not think or admit any jealousy, but one can sense a degree of it — the same sort of people who say, so tiresomely, things like 'the only university you need to go to is the university of life'. In reality, that's the one you go to if you're not bright enough. ...

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On the flip side, let's not associate "intelligence" with a university education. There are many intelligent people who have no post-secondary education. A university degree qualifies a person to only apply a specific learning to a specific area of expertise. This does no make them generally “intelligent”.

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Originally Posted by schmenke

On the flip side, let's not associate "intelligence" with a university education. There are many intelligent people who have no post-secondary education. A university degree qualifies a person to only apply a specific learning to a specific area of expertise. This does no make them generally “intelligent”.

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Well said :)

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Originally Posted by schmenke

On the flip side, let's not associate "intelligence" with a university education. There are many intelligent people who have no post-secondary education. A university degree qualifies a person to only apply a specific learning to a specific area of expertise. This does no make them generally “intelligent”.

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Maybe that is what the degree does, however studying at the university will do so much more to improve the way you see the world, how you think and how you work. IMO it increases your intellectual abilities, not only your knowledge level.

Yes, I have a degree from UofH, Cougar High, to some. It took almost 7 years to earn because I could not be a full time student and UofH was not the only university attended. I used no student loans but did benefit from various employer's programs that would reimburse a previously approved employee for tuition and books once the courses were completed with passing grades. You had to enrol in the program first. You couldn't just show up at the window waving transcripts around, demanding money. My parents had saved the money and wanted to put me through the higher education process but the siren call of independence and freedom had become overwhelming and I was itching for the opportunity to find my own way, which also included finding my own way to pay for higher education. You have asked this question before, Ben.

Ioan, I don't dislike students I just know the difference between book smart and 20 years of supporting yourself and a family smart. Most all of the idealism and social philosophies I considered possible up to around age 21 has long since been replaced with reality. That reality is the product of human nature, which does not change and will not change as long as humans have free will. The movie "A Clockwork Orange" is an interesting exploration of the concept of modifying free will. The problem was that they should have treated the victims as well as the criminal perpetrator.

As an aside, when I was in my 30's my Dad took a job transfer to California. One night Mom and Dad called babbling about finding their "dream house" and launched into describing the place, at 1:00 am. At the first break I asked them why was this necessary at 1:00 am? Because even with the money from the sale of the house in Houston the new house would be more than they wanted to finance so they called to ask about using "my" college money that they had saved all these years on their new house. It felt good to tell them that as far as I was concerned it was and always had been their money and they could do whatever they wanted with it. They got their dream house.

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Originally Posted by schmenke

On the flip side, let's not associate "intelligence" with a university education. There are many intelligent people who have no post-secondary education. A university degree qualifies a person to only apply a specific learning to a specific area of expertise. This does no make them generally “intelligent”.

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Of course, I agree totally.

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Originally Posted by Hondo

Most all of the idealism and social philosophies I considered possible up to around age 21 has long since been replaced with reality.

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I don't see this in my friends from university and I at all. The notion that all students are hopeless idealists simply isn't true. I'm sure the protests we've seen have much genuine anger and discontentment at Government policies behind them. To tar all students with the same brush as you did in your previous comments is unfair and inaccurate.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

I don't see this in my friends from university and I at all. The notion that all students are hopeless idealists simply isn't true. I'm sure the protests we've seen have much genuine anger and discontentment at Government policies behind them. To tar all students with the same brush as you did in your previous comments is unfair and inaccurate.

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I have no doubt that the different societies in which we were raised plays a major role in our outlooks.

My point, and I stand by it, is that students, full of youth and zeal but devoid of experience, are easier to provoke to protest and riot. Student protests are nothing new and exist throughout history for as long as there have been students. Protest is always easier when somebody else is paying for your food, clothing, and housing. I am unaware of any student who, in the course of their protest, felt they could enhance their cause by damaging their parents home or car.

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Originally Posted by Hondo

I have no doubt that the different societies in which we were raised plays a major role in our outlooks.

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I'm sure that's very true.

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Originally Posted by Hondo

My point, and I stand by it, is that students, full of youth and zeal but devoid of experience, are easier to provoke to protest and riot. Student protests are nothing new and exist throughout history for as long as there have been students. Protest is always easier when somebody else is paying for your food, clothing, and housing. I am unaware of any student who, in the course of their protest, felt they could enhance their cause by damaging their parents home or car.

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Many students do pay for their own food, clothing and housing. I was fortunate in that my parents were able to contribute towards my housing while I was at university; however, I bought all my own food and clothes during that time, and I'm struggling to think of anyone who was any different in the latter regard. And quite a lot of students do take holiday, evening or weekend jobs to help them pay their way.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why stop there?!
The only answer to this question is because you stopped there. Am I right?
If everyone though like you than the world would be populated only by people with medium and low qualification that can hardly do more than sustain the present level of development. Also what would be the level of development without the researchers who helped the society evolve so far?

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Well ,well ,well ioan..
On the second line of your statement ,is it THOUGH ,OR thought?
When you are on educational threads ,please get your spelling correct,even if it is not your 1st language!!!!!!!
Too ready to correct others!!

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why stop there?!
The only answer to this question is because you stopped there. Am I right?
If everyone though like you than the world would be populated only by people with medium and low qualification that can hardly do more than sustain the present level of development. Also what would be the level of development without the researchers who helped the society evolve so far?

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Well ,well ,well ioan..
On the second line of your statement ,is it THOUGH ,OR thought?
When you are on educational threads ,please get your spelling correct,even if it is not your 1st language!!!!!!!
Too ready to correct others!!
Is that noted BDunnell

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Originally Posted by driveace

Well ,well ,well ioan..
On the second line of your statement ,is it THOUGH ,OR thought?
When you are on educational threads ,please get your spelling correct,even if it is not your 1st language!!!!!!!
Too ready to correct others!!
Is that noted BDunnell

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I made my point earlier about ioan's standard of English. Nice of you to think of me, though.

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Originally Posted by driveace

Well ,well ,well ioan..
On the second line of your statement ,is it THOUGH ,OR thought?
When you are on educational threads ,please get your spelling correct,even if it is not your 1st language!!!!!!!
Too ready to correct others!!
Is that noted BDunnell

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Irony at its finest.

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Originally Posted by Hondo

Protest is always easier when somebody else is paying for your food, clothing, and housing. I am unaware of any student who, in the course of their protest, felt they could enhance their cause by damaging their parents home or car.

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Where were the targets of student riots?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11726822
Demonstrators stormed a building in Westminster housing the Conservative Party headquarters, smashed windows and got on to the roof.
- BBC News, 10 Nov 2010

Who was paying for politicians food, clothing, and second :rolleyes: housing? It wouldn't happen to be the taxpayer would it? Or are you somehow suggesting that Government is no longer accountable to the will of the people? Especially since it has expressly broken promises its made.

The NUS is threatening to try to unseat Liberal Democrat MPs who go back on pre-election pledges they made to oppose any rise in tuition fees.
- BBC News, 10 Nov 2010

So it's perfectly acceptable for governments to bail out banks and pay for the messes caused by the private and public sector, but to keep an election pledge isn't?
Your very country was started over a taxation dispute and because voices weren't being heard by government. How different is this in principle?

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

...Many students do pay for their own food, clothing and housing. I was fortunate in that my parents were able to contribute towards my housing while I was at university; however, I bought all my own food and clothes during that time, and I'm struggling to think of anyone who was any different in the latter regard. And quite a lot of students do take holiday, evening or weekend jobs to help them pay their way.

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I lived at home during my years at university which obvioulsy was a huge savings on the expense, but I did work weekends and during the summers, at times 7 days/week, washing dishes and mopping floors to pay my tuition, books and other associated fees.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Shame they didn't spell check them all though

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But that's okay, because critisising them on spelling would be clutching at straws, as some would argue...

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Not to worry, at least it gave you the opportunity to mention your degree again.

Sorry state if you view accountancy from a decent red brick uni as on a par with Peace Studies from the local Poly, and could you do the job you do now with Peace Studies?

But if the degree and/or student are that useless then they won't have to pay a penny back, so those that are just going for a doss will plump for such courses.

But if it dispenses with these pointless degrees then all the better, just makes the Coalition's ideas even better.

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I agree that there are some courses that are best described as "drinking" degrees but I would hope that most people go to University to advance themselves.

Saying that, I completely disagree with you that a degree from what was the old Polytechnic system are in any way less valid than one from the the tradditional Uni's.

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Originally Posted by skc

Saying that, I completely disagree with you that a degree from what was the old Polytechnic system are in any way less valid than one from the the tradditional Uni's.

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Certainly no less valid, but I think the demarcation between polys and universities was a useful one. Turning all the polys into universities has only served to further devalue the latter term, in my view.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

Before 1992 there were such things as Polytechnics which which issued certificates for a lot of practical trades. The then Major Government brought them under the auspices of the university system.
Society does need tradies as much as it needs doctors. Plumbers, gasfitters, carpenters, electricians all contribute to society. By the same token, those people need to be qualified enough to do their job and ensure that they don't accidentally kill themselves or other people.

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There has been this drive towards pushing people towards degrees rather than vocational courses which has lead to a shortage of trades people and Plumbers earning over £50k per year. Thank god for immigration redressing the balance :laugh:

Seriously though, the Technical Colleges still do a fantastic job but I believe a gradual realignment of the system is required with vocational training being viewed as being as desirable as a Degree.

There is this view that if you're not good enough to go to Uni, then you get a trade at college instead.

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Originally Posted by ioan

Why stop there?!
The only answer to this question is because you stopped there. Am I right?
If everyone though like you than the world would be populated only by people with medium and low qualification that can hardly do more than sustain the present level of development. Also what would be the level of development without the researchers who helped the society evolve so far?

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I come on this forum to discuss views and understand other peoples opinions. Not to give out personal information about muself on an open site. Not trying to be rude but I prefer to not give out too much personal information but on this occassion, I will confirm I went to Uni as a mature student and paid for my course. I think that qualifies me to have an opinion on this matter and am not anti-University. In fact, I am pro-Uni and want to see the crap cut out of the current system and to have the best academic competence we can possibly have in this country.

Like it or not, my Country is in a hell of a financial mess. There has been too many people dipping the pockets of the tax payer. It now has to stop.

We either have a system where the people getting a financial benefit through the University system help pay for the continued excellence they experienced or we dilute that system by letting it continue as it is doing.

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Originally Posted by Daniel

Sometimes it's also a crutch for those less intelligent people who simply aren't destined for university as well as being as you say, a throwback to the days when education at a university was actually reserved for those of the higher classes.

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But thanks to His Toniness being a bit dim is no longer a reason for not going to Uni as he decided that all and sundry should attend as it took them off the unemployment figures so made it look like Nu Labour were doing well.

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Originally Posted by GridGirl

Maybe your jealous because you don't have a degree. :p Incidently, I could do my job now if I had a degree in Peace Studies. No employer I have ever worked for has openly discriminated on degree course but they have discriminated on degree classification. Does it happen? I don't know, I've not been the one making decisions on whom to employ.

Why are you just focusing on the people you consider to be thick and those who you consider just to be going for a doss. There are going to be people who do not pay their fees back regardless of what degree course they do and where they do it. Some women for example may choose to have a family. They may be in the position when taking account of their partners income that they do not have to go out to work or they may just work part time and will not therefore pay any fees back due to them not earning £21k per annum.

I don't think I should open up the can of worm's that relates to student loans. I have actually paid off my student loan but if I didn't earn £15k per annum I wouldnt need to pay it back. If I hadn't paid it off by state retirement age it would get written off anyway. You can get a student moan regardless of degree course or university you go. It doesn't even matter of you don't complete the course either..... Ponder that for a while. Oh it will make your blood boil. :p

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But I do have a degree as I've already stated and one that is needed to do the job I do, we don't have any tom dick or harriet doing my job.

If you attend Uni and don't reach those earning limits then it is fair to say it was a complete waste of time and taxpayer's money.

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Originally Posted by skc

I agree that there are some courses that are best described as "drinking" degrees but I would hope that most people go to University to advance themselves.

Saying that, I completely disagree with you that a degree from what was the old Polytechnic system are in any way less valid than one from the the tradditional Uni's.

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Keeps them off the dole and sounds good.

No harm doing a course at Poly if that is what you want to do, but a lot of courses could be done in 1 year at College rather than 3 at Uni.

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Originally Posted by Rollo

but to keep an election pledge isn't?

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Lib Dems came 3rd so they aren't elected so don't have to keep their pie in the sky promises (as they well knew - if they thought they stood a cat in hells chance of being elected they wouldn't have made such wild promises in their manifesto).

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Originally Posted by skc

Like it or not, my Country is in a hell of a financial mess. There has been too many people dipping the pockets of the tax payer. It now has to stop.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

But I do have a degree as I've already stated and one that is needed to do the job I do, we don't have any tom dick or harriet doing my job.

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Some might say that one of the options you mention is doing your job.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

But I do have a degree as I've already stated and one that is needed to do the job I do, we don't have any tom dick or harriet doing my job.

If you attend Uni and don't reach those earning limits then it is fair to say it was a complete waste of time and taxpayer's money.

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I do agree with a lot of what you have said, Bolton Midnight however must pull you up on something you said a few pages ago regarding certain degrees. You classed psychology as a "lesser" degree in different words - I would disagree, as I have a degree in psychology and am currently working in sales. You may wonder how that relates to my current job - you would be surprised. And there are a lot of other degrees which lead on to good careers not necessarily in the same path as you would originally think.

Saying that, I do agree regarding Labour. Mr Blair and Labour fiddled the figures so that there were less "unemployed", keeping people in school and higher education. Clever tactics but not for the good of the country as a whole, along with other more blatant vote-winning policies on various certain subjects between 97 and 07.

Another Lancastrian - place is full of us, good do. Glad you agree with most of what I'm saying, restores faith in this place that it isn't full of clueless lefties after all.

But would you have benefited more with say a Sales / Marketing HND course with your current job? That would have only been a 2 year course at Tuson.