Quod erat demonstrandum. Orthodoxes are christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
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Quod erat demonstrandum. Orthodoxes are christians.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
Not this crap again...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...122302442.html
When is Europe going to stand up against an adversary?
Keep sitting on your hands and see what happens.
Looks like the germans might be short on gas soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
What are you proposing Europe should do?Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
They will do the usual once again, oh please usa save us again, so we can live to bash you again....... :bigcry:Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Well Putin, Stalin, :love: the difference is ----Putin has not started starving them again, but it will not be long now......
oh please can we have some anti-missiles.... :rotflmao:
or maybe ask them who screw up the economy to pay the bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Beware of a man carrying a bag of Mortgages!! :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Maybe pay the 2 billion debt for Ukraine?Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
It's funny that the US puts sanctions on countries like Cuba, Iran and North Korea for whatever reason and then if Russia puts sanctions on Ukraine for unpaid debts, it's the Great Satan. You don't pay your gas bill, your gas will be cut, doesn't it work like that also in the US?
yea and what really pisses me off is the tax and ban on cuban cigars. just think if you could buy a cohiba robusto for 3 bucks
why dont you buy haitian or dominican cigars, just as good and the price is not bad either.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
Russia has oil and gas, the Ukraine wants oil and gas, in this capitalist society of ours I believe the term is 'user pays'.
So what is there to screw 'Russia over' about, for being good capitalists?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
You mean Great Stalin....Go ahead, laugh and use the internet while u can, u will be next.....
[quote="Camelopard"]Russia has oil and gas, the Ukraine wants oil and gas, in this capitalist society of ours I believe the term is 'user pays'.
quote]
As your hero Chamberlain said, "peace in our time", when he sold out the Czechs
But he did get peace, for about five months....
Ummm, chamberlain (he was a pom) isn't and never was my hero, I'm just making a point that the free market and free trade are fine as long as it is your rules that everyone plays by.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Seeing as you brought chamerlain into it, do I have to remind you of how much money US companies made by dealing with hitler in the thirties and forties?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopard
U mean IBM whose german managers decided to sell their talents to Hitler, after the war started??
Or all those brits, including such as the parents of max mosley, celebrating weddings with Sir Adolf as the guest of honor??
just a quick search showed up these (it's probably all jewish propaganda) but makes for interesting reading!
http://reformed-theology.org/html/bo...chapter_06.htm
quote: "It was Henry Ford who in the 1930s built the Soviet Union's first modern automobile plant (located at Gorki) and which in the 50s and 60s produced the trucks used by the North Vietnamese to carry weapons and munitions for use against Americans. At about the same time, Henry Ford was also the most famous of Hitler's foreign backers, and he was rewarded in the 1930s for this long-lasting support with the highest Nazi decoration for foreigners."
"Although there is evidence that European plants owned by Wall Street interests were not bombed by the U.S. Air Force in World War II, this restriction apparently did not reach the British Bombing Command. In March 1942 the Royal Air Force bombed the Ford plant at Poissy, France."
Some more from http://www.historycooperative.org/jo...1/pauwels.html
"In 1939, on the eve of the war, the chairman of Alfred P. Sloan, publicly justified doing business in Hitler's Germany by pointing to the highly profitable nature of GM's operations under the Third Reich. "
(Cited in Michael Dobbs, "Ford and GM Scrutinized for Alleged Nazi Collaboration," The Washington Post, 12 December 1998.)
"Even after Pearl Harbor, Ford retained its 52 per cent of the shares of Ford-Werke in Cologne, and GM remained Opel's sole proprietor. (Billstein et al., 74, and 141)"
"After the war, it would become customary in the West to claim that the unexpected Soviet success against Nazi Germany had been made possible because of massive American assistance, provided under the terms of a Lend-Lease agreement between Washington and Moscow, and that without this aid the Soviet Union would not have survived the Nazi attack. This claim is doubtful. First, American material assistance did not become meaningful before 1942, that is, long after the Soviets had single-handedly put an end to the progress made by the Wehrmacht and had launched their first counteroffensive. Second, American aid never represented more than four to five per cent of total Soviet wartime production, although it must be admitted that even such a slim margin may possibly prove crucial in a crisis situation. Third, the Soviets themselves cranked out all of the light and heavy high-quality weapons — such as the T-34 tank, probably the best tank of World War — that made their success against the Wehrmacht possible. 34 Finally, the much-publicized Lend-Lease aid to the was to a large extent neutralized — and arguably dwarfed — by the unofficial, discreet, but very important assistance provided by American corporate sources to the German enemies of the Soviets. In 1940 and 1941 American oil trusts increased the lucrative oil exports to Germany; large amounts delivered to Nazi Germany via neutral states. The American share of Germany's imports of vitally important oil for engine lubrication (Motorenöl) increased rapidly, from 44 per cent in July 1941 to 94 per cent in September 1941. Without US-supplied fuel, the German attack on the Soviet Union would not have been possible, according to the German historian Tobias Jersak, an authority in the field of American "fuel for the Führer." 35" 34 Clive Ponting, Armageddon: The Second World War (London 1995), 106; and Stephen E. Ambrose, Americans at War (New York 1998), 76–77.
35 Jersak, "Öl fürden Führer." Jersak used a "top secret" document produced by the Wehrmacht Reichsstelle für Mineralöl, now in the military section of the Bundesarchiv (Federal Archives), File RW 19/2694. See also Higham, Trading With the Enemy, 59–61.
"Even after Pearl Harbor, Ford retained its 52 per cent of the shares of Ford-Werke in Cologne, and remained Opel's sole proprietor. (Billstein et al., 74, and 141)"
"Other firms contracted strategic partnerships with German companies. Standard Oil of New Jersey — today's Exxon — developed intimate links with the German trust Farben. By the early 1930s, an élite of about twenty of the largest American corporations had a German connection including Du Pont, Union Carbide, Westinghouse, General Electric, Gilette, Goodrich, Singer, Eastman Kodak, Coca-Cola, IBM, and ITT. Finally, many American law firms, investment companies, and banks were deeply involved in America's investment offensive in Germany, among them the renowned Wall Street law firm Sullivan & Cromwell, and the banks J. P. Morgan and Dillon, Read and Company, as well as the Union Bank of New York, owned by Brown Brothers & Harriman. The Union Bank was intimately linked with the financial and industrial empire of German steel magnate Thyssen, whose financial support enabled Hitler to come to power. This bank was managed by Prescott Bush, grandfather of George W. Bush. Prescott Bush was allegedly also an eager supporter of Hitler, funnelled money to him via Thyssen, and in return made considerable profits by doing business with Nazi Germany; with the profits he launched his son, the later president, in the oil business. (Webster G. Tarpley and Anton Chaitkin, "The Hitler Project," chapter 2 in George Bush: The Unauthorized Biography (Washington 1991). Available online at < http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm>.)
and so on....
I'm not sure if any of you read the article, but pipelines passing through Ukraine supply Europe with fuel. If there is a cut off that could have negative implications in Europe.
Stop bending over and getting shafted? Oil is being used as a tool of manipulation, so Europe should give Russia the finger, preferably the middle one.Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
Russia's currency has been devaluing at a steadfast pace.
I'm sure there has to be a way to see another collapse of the USSR.
I don't think we owe Russia anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by markabilly
Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Are you sure you have understood what you read?
Didn't I kinda cover this in my first post in this thread? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
I do not want to see a return to power for Russia at all. Europe should act immediately to stop it happening.
Now here is a smart Euro :pQuote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Yes. Do you understand the threat posed by Russia to Finland?Quote:
Originally Posted by DonJippo
I remember one of you Finn's didn't mind the fact that Russia would intrude into your airspace. Give them an inch and they'll take a mile. Don't sit around and wait for that to happen.
Also, Putin recently stated that cheap oil was a thing of the past. This reminds me of the energy scandal here in California with Enron. The State of California was almost ran into the ground through arbitrage. The same can happen to Europe because of Gazprom.
LOL! I guess you did. No one seems to listen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Boo terrorist!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
How deep in the ground are you by now?
Since when has Putin been in charge of putting the price on oil?
Maybe you should be more worried about your own countrys intruding in foreign countries airspace, then maybe you dont have to wonder why,
when someone arrange again something simular that did happen in ny a few years ago.
Exactly, well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
No one seems to have replied to what I said, ie, Russia has the oil, Europe wants it, what's the problem?
:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomi
Putin has a lot of influence on the price of oil. Have you not noticed that he's trying to setup another OPEC style cartel? Russia will have more power to influence the price of oil regardless of demand.Quote:
Since when has Putin been in charge of putting the price on oil?
Maybe you should be more worried about your own countrys intruding in foreign countries airspace, then maybe you dont have to wonder why,
when someone arrange again something simular that did happen in ny a few years ago.
Europe keeps getting manipulated by Russia because of oil. Europe pays up and then Russia uses that money to take over former Soviet states. Does that not seem like a problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Camelopard
No different to how the US and their multinationals have over the years used their power to get what they want.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Free trade, free enterprise and no government intervention, isn't that what you guys want?
Dont know about the OPEC style cartell, but the idea about a second market place for oil using some other currency than USD, i offcourse think is a good idea.Quote:
Originally Posted by gloomyDAY
Most countrys has to buy their oil, everyone can not steal, still I think the price of oil is put somewhere else but in russia.
An Australian Euro. It seems that the further away from Russia you are, the more you're afraid of them.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
Russia regaining power won't affect me, pal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Well, no more European than you are. :p :Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
16 Pages of Anti-Russian/Anti-American tripe. I knew there was a reason I was thinking I was missing something when I wasn't online much this last year.....
The Russians are just typical bullies with evil intentions. The Americans are accidental bullies with good intentions but maybe misguided notions of what everyone else wants. The Chinese will cheat/borrow/steal if they can but they are quite happy to make lots of money if you don't tell them how to run their country. It seems one cannot be a superpower without annoying someone somewhere.
Listen. As someone who has lived 45 miles from the US, I would rather have the Yanks misunderstand me than Vlad Putin and his puppet playing hardball with my gas and oil supply.......
Why do you care then?Quote:
Originally Posted by theugsquirrel
Why do you care about what the US does in Iraq then? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
Good point. I don't like "Superpowers" be they the US, Russia or someone else. I'd rather see the US go the same way as the Soviet Union, but since it doesn't look like doing that, I think the US at least needs a counter balance, be it Russia or someone else.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
So alright for you to care but not others? :) How noble of you :up:Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki
I didn't say it's not alright for thesquirrel to care, I just asked why does he care because it doesn't affect his immediate well-being.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel
well it is not always about your "immediate" well being unless you are terminal without family !!
Yeah, but maybe we living nextdoor to the Russians know better when they are about to become dangerous than someone living 5000-10000 miles away from them. Right now they seem to be happy celebrating New Year in Finnish skiing-resorts and spending their money in our after Christmas sales. We'll tell you when they're about to become dangerous.Quote:
Originally Posted by fousto
Would this be before or after the air raid?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eki