The Crane and Lewis

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Originally Posted by Hawkmoon

When exactly did the Safety Car deploy? Did it deploy before or after the crane/tractor/whatever-the-hell-it-was got Hamilton hooked up? I can't recall.

If Hamilton was placed back on the track under racing conditions then the marshals put him and themselves in even more danger as they placed him on the outside of a turn that had just become a car park with at least 4 cars spinning there already.

If the safety car was already deployed then Hamilton should not have been put back on the track. With the cars no longer at racing speeds the marshals had time to remove the Mclaren to the other side of the barriers which was the safest place for all concerned.

You can't blame Hamilton for getting the help but I think the rules need to be clarrified and those marshals need to be re-trained.

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The safety car was already deployed at the moment when the tractor (crane, telehandler or whatever) entered the gravel trap to rescue the cars, remember that Liuzzi almost collected the Safety Car before going of and touching the yellow "whatsoever" that was coming to rescue the beached cars.

At the moment when lewis was lifted and put back on the track the SC was definitely on track and maybe the race was already red flagged, which means that he was no more in a danger and he had no right to be allowed back on track.
I do believe that if he would have got any points at the end of the race than other teams would have contested it.

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Originally Posted by leopardsleeping

I am not sure they operated the crane without any warning to drivers remain at the track, the drivers must have been told with either some yellow flag or radio instruction, if safety car wasn't yet deployed.

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The SC was already deployed.

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Originally Posted by leopardsleeping

I am not sure they operated the crane without any warning to drivers remain at the track, the drivers must have been told with either some yellow flag or radio instruction, if safety car wasn't yet deployed.

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Oh, you are sure? I was sure that after the 3-4 first cars that slid off that corner that the other drivers would no way in hell slip off the corner, knowing that the corner was extra slippery. Didn't happen. They kept sliding off that corner. The reality is that the gravel in those traps are designed to slow the cars down, and the tires are a great way to cushion the impact because it distrubtes the force being applied over a period of time. What happens when you take the gravel away and put a steel wall there? You get a recipe for dead formula one drivers.

The crane should have not even been out in the gravel trap until all the cars were safely behind the safety car.

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Originally Posted by Hendersen

The crane should have not even been out in the gravel trap until all the cars were safely behind the safety car.

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Thank you! Now THAT makes sense! (Which is why the FIA will ignore it)

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Originally Posted by jso1985

the only explanation could be that the rules state that a driver can be pushed back by the marshalls if his car is in a dangerous position(like MS in Nurburgring 03).

now probably the rules doesn't state that the marshall can't use a crane to push the driver back to the track!

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In 2003, MS's car was half-on, half-off the track surface. Lewis was 20 meters off the surface! How is that the same?

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Now I would ask if the following broke any industrial regulations:

1. Whether lifting the car with the engine running,
2. Whether lifting the car with the driver still in the car,
3. Whether operating the JCB in an area where cars were still coming off the track at speed constituted a dangerous environment.

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The rules clearly allow for this IF the track is in Germany and the engine is built by a German manufacturer! ;)

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Originally Posted by wmcot

In 2003, MS's car was half-on, half-off the track surface. Lewis was 20 meters off the surface! How is that the same?

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What's the difference when you're a McLaren fan? ;)

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Now I would ask if the following broke any industrial regulations:

1. Whether lifting the car with the engine running,
2. Whether lifting the car with the driver still in the car,
3. Whether operating the JCB in an area where cars were still coming off the track at speed constituted a dangerous environment. I would add here that a Torro Rosso nearly ran into the crane..

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I think all this broke the Safety Regulations totally.

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Originally Posted by Valve Bounce

Following from the above, I just wonder whether the FIA should have proper procedures for drivers once their cars are beached in a gravel trap and cannot get out under its own power:
1. Should the driver switch off the engine (in case it catches fire from the heat if he doesn't)
2. Should the driver remove the steering wheel and get out of the car
3. Should the driver follow marshals' explicit instructions to move quickly to a position of safety, such as behind a safety fence.

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Following the interview done by Mr Mike Gascoyne of Spyker on Telegraph, he said that for the safety reasons, drivers beached in gravel trap and cannot get out under its own straight away are told to get out of the car quickly and move to a position of safety. Of course the engine should be switched off.

When the Torro Rosso hit the crane the safety car was already out as he narrowly missed hitting hit first.

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Originally Posted by leopardsleeping

I am not sure they operated the crane without any warning to drivers remain at the track, the drivers must have been told with either some yellow flag or radio instruction, if safety car wasn't yet deployed.

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The crane can't be operated without instructions from the race control.

And the crane can't ioperate without the SC deployed already. So, first the race control deploy the SC and then after they give a go ahead to the crane's staff to do their job. Which means there is no breach of rule, the crane operated while the SC was already released.