Mercedes drivers told to obey team orders in future

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

War - by definition means means killing people. I'm sick of people waging that word like it's the most normal word in the world. I've carried a dozen dead friends and quite a few dead and wounded Americans out of the line of fire. in Somalia in the early nineties and it makes me physically sick, when people talk about war, for whom the most distressing experience in life was that the espresso machine was jammed.

We are talking about motorsports here - a couple of spoiled kids, who never had to work for a living, driving cars really fast. What's wrong with words like 'battle' or 'rivalry'.

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With you completely on that. One hears far too much immoderate language these days — 'tragedy' and 'disaster' when no deaths are involved, for example.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

That's right , let them get on with the driving , but leave the decisions on strategy to the team .

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I tend to believe that drivers should be able to get on with both, without the constant interference from the pit wall. Sometimes with Massa one used to wonder whether he could make it round a single lap without Rob Smedley's assistance.

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Originally Posted by dj_bytedisaster

Sorry mate, but socialism doesn't work. I must know, I was born in East Germany. I own a company, if it goes bust I am to blame, so I call the shots. I do value the input of my employees, but if they think they can disregard me and just do their own thing without risk, because the risk is mine. They're gone. period.

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I don't wish to lecture you on the differences between communism and socialism, nor on why greater employee input is not in itself socialist, but the above response suggests it might be worthwhile. And please don't call me 'mate'.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

One thing we seem to disagree on , henners , is that Lewis could have won , had he not held Nico up .
I think he would have had a really good chance to keep Nico behind him at the end .
But , you don't seem to have much faith in that idea .

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I don't think Lewis could have won the race no. I think had Nico got past, he would have made up time on his newer tyres and been a real hassle for Lewis in the final stint earlier than he actually was. I can't extent on that more than I already have multiple times here already.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

One thing we seem to disagree on , henners , is that Lewis could have won , had he not held Nico up .
I think he would have had a really good chance to keep Nico behind him at the end .
But , you don't seem to have much faith in that idea .

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You're assuming Lewis held Nico up, but did he? Before the team order, Nico was catching Lewis quite rapidly. After Nico got relatively close, Lewis was either holding Nico up, or he sped up to match Nico's pace - and was therefore not holding him up. Their lap times should tell the story.

- If Nico's lap times increase after he gets close to Lewis, he was being held up and maybe Lewis should've let him past.
- If Lewis's lap times decrease, that tells us he made the decision to take the risk of ruining his tyres to avoid having to let Nico past.

I haven't looked at lap times, but Lewis's reply on the radio to the team orders tell me it's probably the second scenario I've listed.

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Originally Posted by Firstgear

You're assuming Lewis held Nico up, but did he? Before the team order, Nico was catching Lewis quite rapidly. After Nico got relatively close, Lewis was either holding Nico up, or he sped up to match Nico's pace - and was therefore not holding him up. Their lap times should tell the story.

- If Nico's lap times increase after he gets close to Lewis, he was being held up and maybe Lewis should've let him past.
- If Lewis's lap times decrease, that tells us he made the decision to take the risk of ruining his tyres to avoid having to let Nico past.

I haven't looked at lap times, but Lewis's reply on the radio to the team orders tell me it's probably the second scenario I've listed.

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Had he kept the same pace , as Nico approached quickly , he would have been holding him up .
The pace he was keeping was more in tune with what the team wanted , as they wanted his longer stint on harder tires to get him to the end with some pace left in them .

As it was , though , Lewis sped up as he got close , and it prompted a reminder at the same time as the team order , which was to not race Nico because it would destroy the tires .

So , Lewis , technically , didn't hold him up at all in that sense .

Perhaps I should have written it as "held him behind" .

And , as it was , he didn't end up able to even really get a look into passing the Ferrari , a car with far less pace in it .
It was a great drive from the back , but , in my opinion , he could have played it smarter and had a real chance at the win .

Sounds like a pretty fair assessment Baggy. So Nico has no real complaint because he wasn't slowed by Lewis.

Lewis had to choose between a good chance at keeping Nico behind, or a slim chance at a win. His choice shows us that the WDC is more important to him than an individual win. Can't blame him for that.

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Originally Posted by Bagwan

Had he kept the same pace , as Nico approached quickly , he would have been holding him up .
And , as it was , he didn't end up able to even really get a look into passing the Ferrari , a car with far less pace in it .
It was a great drive from the back , but , in my opinion , he could have played it smarter and had a real chance at the win .

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His real chance to win was denied, when the team didn't switch him to the faster 3 stop strategy, which would have meant him staying ahead of the red bull and probably passing the ferrari.
In the previous race they (correctly) gambled on the SC and sorta lost out a bit, but typically the mercedes team seem too dogged to switch up strategies and actually optimize their situation.
that is the whole reason for the 6 guys on the pitwall and dozens of engineers both at the track and back in the factory. It was so obvious to fans and commentators, bur seemingly oblivious to the team.
Perhaps the thing that Hamilton did wrong was not insisting on coming in for a 3rd stop, but nothing else. He did play it smart with the situation he was in and the cars around him.

Nico showed no zeal to make a proper pass, and actually was not good enough to pass vergne which probably held up Hamilton as well. and as many have said, slowing down to let rosberg bye would surely have meant him finishing behind rosberg and deliberately giving away points to his championship rival. The team has already come out and acknowledged the poor decision and mistake of issuing those orders and that Hamilton was right to pursue his race. So, yes he played it smarter and managed to finish on the podium and more importantly, ahead of his championship rival.

I can't remember a summer break where Hamilton wasn't the hot topic in recent years lol. Come on Spa this is boring now!! :)

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Originally Posted by truefan72

His real chance to win was denied, when the team didn't switch him to the faster 3 stop strategy, which would have meant him staying ahead of the red bull and probably passing the ferrari.
In the previous race they (correctly) gambled on the SC and sorta lost out a bit, but typically the mercedes team seem too dogged to switch up strategies and actually optimize their situation.
that is the whole reason for the 6 guys on the pitwall and dozens of engineers both at the track and back in the factory. It was so obvious to fans and commentators, bur seemingly oblivious to the team.
Perhaps the thing that Hamilton did wrong was not insisting on coming in for a 3rd stop, but nothing else. He did play it smart with the situation he was in and the cars around him.

Nico showed no zeal to make a proper pass, and actually was not good enough to pass vergne which probably held up Hamilton as well. and as many have said, slowing down to let rosberg bye would surely have meant him finishing behind rosberg and deliberately giving away points to his championship rival. The team has already come out and acknowledged the poor decision and mistake of issuing those orders and that Hamilton was right to pursue his race. So, yes he played it smarter and managed to finish on the podium and more importantly, ahead of his championship rival.

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Yeah I agree with this. The team should have switched Hamilton to Rosberg's strategy. I don't get Mercedes decisions to be honest with this. It appears to me as though these decisions always subtly favor Rosberg not Hamilton. We'll see in time what happens in the second half of the season I guess :)