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You instigate the assault of words. Proclaim that you are strictly on point, pretend to be an American and then take two words from a post, one concerning animals, the other a race of people. If you believe you are that you are all knowing about American politics through pretense, why not work on doing what you claim to be doing and stick to the point.Quote:
Originally Posted by webberf1
Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Here we go again. Let us in on who claims to be a psychologist. Which person on the forum is the one you are targeting as being a/Gluaistean, which in fact is Gaelic. and means car. The other is an abbreviation. I am clueless except for adv probably means advertising and spec is likely specialties. Maybe it's a website.
There are four pages here Shifter with many posters. You are accusing someone once more of what I can't be sure but I could find out from the recorded posts. They can be found very easily.
I'll be the first......are you accusing me of something?
Being a foreigner I have little understanding of what "Obama Care" is all about, anyone care to explain what it's supposed to be doing. Without using rhetoric please ;)
Mark, I'll take a shot at that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
The issue is that the American healthcare system, though providing (for some) the best care in the world, is very expensive. Those without insurance, or at least good insurance, find it economically difficult to avail themselves of said care. That's compounded by the many who choose not to buy insurance which means a smaller base of insurance premiums to pay for the care with. Many employers here provide insurance to employees as one of the benefits along with salary, 401Ks, etc. The cost of the healthcare benefit has been going up rapidly partially because the healthcare field is largely unregulated from a cost basis and providers, drug companies and insurance companies can charge whatever they wish. Over the last 10 or more years employers have been cutting benefits back and/or requiring larger copays and employee contributions as a consequence. This is compounded by the many who have no insurance or are illegal and can't get it even if they could afford it.
The above is the issue. Obamacare was/is an attempt to both broaden the base of payers into the system - everybody pays some sort of premium or penalty - which is why the Supreme Count upheld that the law was constitutional by calling it a tax. It was also an attempt to bring order to the system and level out the playing field.
The problems with both the law and it's application are discussed elsewhere in this thread. Once you get past some of the posts, particularly those of one poster.
What interests me about the entire "tax" angle is that essentially the government will force collection of fines as a "tax" yet the only government involvement is to force the tax, not provide any service to those people in return for doing so. Those that don't have the income are exempt from the tax and will get 'free" healthcare on the backs of those that pay regular taxes and the penalties of Obamacare.
In that sense it's a way to hide the normal..... those that have pay for those that don't. Yet without any regulation of the health care industry, we are still paying too much for reasonable health care, which is part of the entire problem. So now we have a government that chooses to force people to pay the unreasonable rates, or face penalties.
I'm glad I don't have to worry about any of this mess as it applies to myself or my wife. And if I did, I would disregard the decisions made and make my own regardless. As I see it the entire program is one big mess, not well thought out, and so complex that those voting on it could not possibly understand how it works, much less how to fund it.
I see. So it's kind of like the way car insurance works in the UK, doesn't matter who you buy from, but you must have it? Or is there some government scheme you can pay into?
In the UK we have "National Insurance" which is supposed to be for the purposes of healthcare and pension payments. However as these things usually go it basically morphed into just another tax.
Oh , the humanity.....poor people will get health care....oh my that is so wrong. They should all die,right Shifter? :dork:Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Similar to car insurance in that sense, but the devil of it lies in all the loopholes and subsidies. The idea was to force people to get coverage thus expanding the user and risk base, and in theory driving prices down. As with anything else, it's driving up prices for young and/or healthy, and the elderly and/or less healthy might get a break.
But as usual here in the US they have attached so much red tape to everything that State adoptation of the Medicaid expansion and about a million other factors can influence who gets help, who pays for themselves, limits, tax deductions.... just about everything. There are requirements for providers concerning co pays, preventative care, etc, etc, etc. Companies have requirements as well, so some are already choosing to limit the number of full time employees.
At the end of the day, it's supposed to make things easier and provide service to more people who can't afford it. I've seen nothing in terms of easier, nothing in terms of savings, and assume I'll get taxed more somehow to pay for everyone that qualifies for all the susidies and such and ends up with very cheap health care. Even those people with subsidies will pay part in most cases.... so it's another bill for those that struggle already.
Here is a version of something that's been floating around. The sad thing is.... quite a few statements in it are true.
"We're going to be "blessed" with a health care plan we are forced to purchase and fined if we don't and which supposedly covers at least ten million more people without adding a single new doctor... yet provides for 16,000 new IRS agents.
It's written by a committee whose chairman says he doesn't understand it and passed by a one-party (Democrat) Congress that didn't read it but exempted themselves from THEIR OWN LAW that was signed by a former Community Organizing President who smokes -- with funding administered by a treasury chief who dodged his taxes -- for which we'll be taxed for four years before any benefits take effect.
All of this from a government which has already bankrupted Social Security and Medicare while being overseen by a surgeon general who is obese and financed by a country that's broke!!!!!
Gee, what could possibly go wrong?"
At the rate things are going I wouldn't be shocked to see things get much worse with the shutdown and such. We don't have the funding for this or a number of things yet neither side is willing to give. And I think much of the US is waking up to the fact that all this "free" stuff is going to cost a lot of people a lot of tax money.
At this point in my life I'm really concerned about leaving our daughter in a good financial spot, because at the rate we are going future generations are really going to be screwed. They will end up paying tax rates similar to countries with more socialized health care and public systems in place, but they won't have those systems in place.... they will be forced to fund systems that still generate profit to the private companies.
There was no question that there would be a huge problem when a 2200 some odd page bill was passed that the legislators were not given time to read; that was written by private companies, lobbyists and some staff; and had many things included which did not pertain to the core issue. As with all American legislation that 2200 page bill isl blossoming into tens of thousands of pages of regulations written by bureaucrats and administered to same. It is nearly as much a jobs bill as a healthcare bill.Quote:
Originally Posted by airshifter
Did not even mention Vegemite. Poor stereotyping, would not read again. 2/10.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spafranco