Exactly. Let us not forget, Hitler and Stalin, the two biggest tyrants were also the biggest iconoclasts ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
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Exactly. Let us not forget, Hitler and Stalin, the two biggest tyrants were also the biggest iconoclasts ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
That's probably because Constantine and his sons weren't catholic in the first place. Check sources first.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
If you need an example of a less tolerant ruler who promoted a certain denomination and persecuted dissidents, Diocletian would be a good choice.
You have not taken my reference in the manner in which I meant it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rudy Tamasz
I never implied that Constantine persecuted Catholics, only that he had it institutionalized.Quote:
In 313, the struggles of the early church were lessened by the legalization of Christianity by the Emperor Constantine I. In 380, Christianity became the state religion of the Roman Empire by the decree of the Emperor.
I am a Christian and therefore a theist.
I won't try to change your beliefs, but there's quite a bit of literature that suggests an inclination towards religion is an evolutionary advantage. For one thing it unites a culture and organizes society. If you read the book Cows, Pigs, Wars, and Witches, there are very good reasons for the Jews to eschew the pig, and Hindus to not eat their sacred cows. There's a certain culture in southeast Asia whose name escapes me that had an elaborate schedule of religious feasts and celebrations. It was only in modern times that anthropologists discovered (when those schedules were abandoned) that the timing ensured agricultural success and minimized pest problems through strict calendar management.
For one thing, religion promises the "illusion of control" as Howard Bloom would put it in The Lucifer Principle, over the unpredictability of life. He also says the we modern men are no different, bowing to the modern medical shaman we call our Doctors. We read books with all sorts of conflicting advice on Parenting to try and control the uncontrollable, and I see religiosity all over the environmental movement, only now it's not for the sake of our souls, it's for the sake of the planet. In other words we are stillinclined to organize our thoughts this way.
The homily in mass yesterday was based on Romans 8:31 What, then, shall we say in response to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us?
I am sure many of you find me foolish, but I pray all the time as I move through life and I find it centers me and helps me make the right decisions, and I have been blessed. Even though I sell products to construction in a recession, I still had my best year ever. Everything is just opening up before me and I am amazed. No it's not perfect, but I could not imagine going through life as an agnostic or atheist. It may sound silly to many of you, but I am not alone.
Live the live you love
Use a god you trust
And don't take it all too seriously.
- Love And Rockets
Sheesh, my dog is god guys!
Yes, it's easier to organise a functioning society when there are rules of conduct for daily life. That if you steal your neighbours bread and kill him at the same time, then you'll go to hell is a powerful motivator to keep you in line.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexamateo
What record do we have that Jesus was peaceful? The Bible was written 300 years later by a collection of Religious leaders and influencer's headed by Damascus. The rise of Damascus himself is astonishing with murder, riots, civil unrest and massacres preceding his appointment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Alcatraz
These are the authors of the New Testament. It is an amalgamation of doctrine composed by the politicians of the time to solve a civil problem.
Even so, there are many examples of violence and cruelty associated with Jesus in this fiction. For example, all the guff about respecting other faiths rather flies in the face of the assertion that those not baptised should be cast into the fire, or what about the sanctity of burial but Jesus says to ignore the dead and "let the dead bury their dead". We could even talk about when Jesus cast devils into a herd of swine forcing them to drown and the herders to lose their livelihood and they fled into the town and told what happened.
These aren't choice parts from all parts of the New testament but just a few pages of Matthew; a book about one of the disciples which was probably originally written about 100 AD and nobody knows the author even before it was incorporated into the New Testament.
We can look at acts of violence and teachings of cruelty by Jesus in other books but the most prophetic is probably that Jesus will cause Brother to kill Brother and Father to kill Son. This one at least has come true.
This is all in the sanitised version known as the New Testament and not the Blood and Guts, incest, rape, murder and sodomy read known as the Jewish Scripture or Old Testament whichever you prefer.
Was Jesus a peace loving Prophet? Dunno. However, I wouldn't rely on the New Testament to prove your point as I have many, many more examples.
All of which has little to do with God ;)
In debates like these I always wonder whether people would have "faith" if the formal religions didn't exist? If children weren't taken to church and told by their parents that God exists, how many would come to that conclusion all by themselves?
That is why Dawkins really dislikes children being labelled a 'Christian child' or a 'Muslim child'. You wouldn't label a child of tory parents a 'conservative child'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkmoon