11-5: The 2012 schedule

To quote a member from TF, saying it make sense to do the three day street festivals because of the money they raise and the crowds they attract is like saying "It makes sense for someone to use heroin because it helps make them feel better." In reality, it just highlights the fact that you cannot attract spectators to actual racetracks.

It's not just about ovals: the fact that next year's schedule only contains three ovals and three road courses shows how unattractive the product is. Filling the schedule up with street circuits is like admitting defeat: the product cannot pull people to racetracks so I have to bring the racing to the urban cores so people will come. Most of whom aren't really race fans, just party fans, who will not watch the next race on the TV.

One has to look at the demise of Champ Car to see how slippery this slope is. Champ Car didn't take this route willingly, it's what happened to it. It's what happening to IndyCar as well. It's not like the powers that be like street races, street races are just the last refuge for a dying series to appear alive for a couple of years.

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Originally Posted by SoCalPVguy

Why ?

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We already have enough road/street courses.

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Originally Posted by Dr. Krogshöj

To quote a member from TF, saying it make sense to do the three day street festivals because of the money they raise and the crowds they attract is like saying "It makes sense for someone to use heroin because it helps make them feel better." In reality, it just highlights the fact that you cannot attract spectators to actual racetracks.

It's not just about ovals: the fact that next year's schedule only contains three ovals and three road courses shows how unattractive the product is. Filling the schedule up with street circuits is like admitting defeat: the product cannot pull people to racetracks so I have to bring the racing to the urban cores so people will come. Most of whom aren't really race fans, just party fans, who will not watch the next race on the TV.





One has to look at the demise of Champ Car to see how slippery this slope is. Champ Car didn't take this route willingly, it's what happened to it. It's what happening to IndyCar as well. It's not like the powers that be like street races, street races are just the last refuge for a dying series to appear alive for a couple of years.

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Sad words here but I tend to agree. It may be reality unfortunately. Race tracks need priority here, not street courses, where as we see in the long run lose money, look at Baltimore. It's sad, I dont know what the immediate fix is but it certainly isnt more street courses. It scares me to be honest. I love Indycar and I love open wheel racing on ovals, there is NOTHING more exciting to me.

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Originally Posted by schumacher180

We already have enough road/street courses.

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I disagree

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Originally Posted by SoCalPVguy

I disagree

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How can you disagree, there are WAY TOO MANY street/road courses. Its sad, real sad. :(

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

How can you disagree, there are WAY TOO MANY street/road courses. Its sad, real sad. :(

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I hope you recorded all of the IRL seasons because there won't be anymore all oval seasons again. I wish the series would have 50/50 but that's not possible right now. People just aren't going to the ovals other than Indy.

It's not that there are too many road and street races ... It's that we are shirt a dozen ovals

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Originally Posted by DanicaFan

How can you disagree, there are WAY TOO MANY street/road courses. Its sad, real sad. :(

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Your model of an all oval open wheel series is a proven financial failure in today's market. Plus of course if you're for it I am automatically against it LOL given your poor judge of driving talent and racing economics

Well, I don't want them to return to the oval days. I want a schedule like we had in 2010, 9 road/streets and 8 ovals is perfect. But I understand this isn't possible right now, and I like road racing very much as well... Especially the races on a street course, and we have enough of them. I can't say I'm not happy with this schedule, I'm curious if Power is still such dominant on them with the new car. The only thing I want is at least the finale to be on an oval, nothing more and nothing less.

I think the series probably needs to pick at least one or two additional ovals and "make" them work - in other words - make sure the racing is excellent and plan on losing money. The success of the entire series depends on the diversity of the tracks - it is the only thing that truly sets Indycars apart from the rest....

I have been reading some racing "history" books lately. This attendance problem is nothing new - even in the "golden Age(s)" there were more than a few events that did not do well/survive. Places like Ontario & Trenton died - there were more than a few events at places i have never heard of that only lasted a couple of seasons (both ovals and road courses)... I am forced to conclude that racing's normal state of existence is as a niche sport. The boom days of CART in particular were not the norm but just a wonderful confluence of events that allowed the sport of Indycar racing to thrive in spite of itself, not because of anything anybody did "right".... In 20 years, we will be saying the same thing about NASCAR (which has clearly peaked - but due to excellent management is having a fairly shallow glide path down to the reality of a niche sport....). Racing is not alone in this sense. Those of you who grew up in the 1980's probably remember that nearly every weekend was filled with huge and elaborate rock concerts at the local sports arena or stadium - now nobody will pay to see most of them.... Basketball and Hockey are nowhere near as popular as they once were....

As fans of Indycar we need to adjust our expectations.... A 12-15 race series with a mixture of tracks and a high quality internet product and teams largely supported by wealthy individuals with occasional multi-season binges by corporate spenders is what we can/should expect. TV is ancient history and too expensive. Cost controlled spec racing is a desperate attempt to cling to the immediate past (tv, big sponsors, big series...). We need to boldly move to the future and embrace the limitations of our sport and give the participants a more modest model that allows the sport to show the creativity and innovation that made the sport interesting in the first place even though it was never really "big time" then....

Back to the ovals vs. road course argument, Champcar didn't survive a lack of diversity (or lack of Indy really) - but Indy cannot survive if you cannot take the sport "to the people" - which is really the street courses in particular... Yes, we need more than just Indy for ovals and we need carefully selected street courses - but people need to see an Indycar in an environment that is familiar to them to understand just how awesome the sport is... The fact is we need both and the different types of tracks really need each other - all road courses don't give you a sense of the awesome speed potential of the car and all ovals gives you no frame of reference to what is really happening on the track....