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21st March 2007, 06:07
W8&C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez

LOL, just confirming again, you dont have any clue whatsoever what mass-dampers are, let alone how they work :D

Just for the record, Renault's mass-dampers involved a 12kg weight moving up and down ballacing, when they fitted Bridgestone tires for the first time, the device would stuck, simply there wasnt enough room for it to work due to the different size of the new tires.

Still don´t comprehend it. AFAIK the mass damper system was fitted in the Renault´s nose cone. So how could the tyre size interfere with that system to make it stuck?
21st March 2007, 07:01
XR8

I can see it now! Ferrarri havnt got a car at all, they are racing a jet plane and they have developed a hologram to make it look like a car but the hologram floor is unstable but hey that isnt their fault now is it. Give them time and they will have us all hipmotized to believing they are the underdogs and deserve to win no matter what!
21st March 2007, 08:54
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez

LOL, just confirming again, you dont have any clue whatsoever what mass-dampers are, let alone how they work :D

and now you're calling Renault people technicaly untrained? you think they dont know what they are talking about? Seriously, could you possibly BE more ridiculous ? :D Just for the record, Renault's mass-dampers involved a 12kg weight moving up and down ballacing, when they fitted Bridgestone tires for the first time, the device would stuck, simply there wasnt enough room for it to work due to the different size of the new tires. then they realized why Ferrari was so keen on pushing on the ban. If you speak German and want to educte (and obviously, you do seriously need to) log on to f1total.com and search for "Massendämpfers" (sometimes also refered to as "Dämpfer-Urteil" in the German media). Alternatively, think before you talk rubbish (always a good idea)

Yep, I have no idea, that's why I asked you to give us the link to that "rather deep, yet easy to understand technical" article you talked about before.

As others pointed out it's bizarre that Renault was testing the Bridgestone tires with the mass-dampers on the car as those are banned, and will not come back, which means that it was only lost track time and money, not to mention that the tires they got to test weren't the same tires Ferrari were using last season but the ones they are using now.

Also someone pointed out that the mass dampers were fitted into the nose cone of the car so it is difficult, even for me, to understand how the width of the tires would make that 12kg mass, as you say, to get stuck in the nose cone, unless they forgot to lubricate it since August last year!
21st March 2007, 10:07
F1boat

Ron is awful bitter man. He single-handedly made me to loathe McLaren and severay years back I was crazy fan of them.
21st March 2007, 10:32
Heidfeldrulez

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Yep, I have no idea, that's why I asked you to give us the link to that "rather deep, yet easy to understand technical" article you talked about before.!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuned_mass_damper

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

As others pointed out it's bizarre that Renault was testing the Bridgestone tires with the mass-dampers on the car as those are banned, and will not come back, which means that it was only lost track time and money

Perhaps they wanted to compare their old device to the new one, learn a thing or two about how they differ and move on with the new device's development in a direction this comparative analysis would draw.
21st March 2007, 10:36
Heidfeldrulez

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

not to mention that the tires they got to test weren't the same tires Ferrari were using last season but the ones they are using now.!

i belive its the compound that is different from last year

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

Also someone pointed out that the mass dampers were fitted into the nose cone of the car so it is difficult, even for me, to understand how the width of the tires would make that 12kg mass, as you say, to get stuck in the nose cone, unless they forgot to lubricate it since August last year!

The mass-dampers are a part of the front-suspension, they are strongly connected. The tire windth does indeed effect the angle and the extent of how the wishbone enters the chasse, so that might give you an idea of what the problem was. Also it reveals how fine-tuned the device was and how little room teams have to deal with (in any part of the car) to instal devices like that.
21st March 2007, 11:07
W8&C

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez

...
The mass-dampers are a part of the front-suspension, they are strongly connected. The tire windth does indeed effect the angle and the extent of how the wishbone enters the chasse, so that might give you an idea of what the problem was.
...

Not true: the mass damper system is working independent from the front (or rear) suspension.

Check here: http://www.formula1.com/insight/tech...6/758/291.html

Or like Wikipedia says:

mass dampers stabilize against violent motion caused by harmonic vibration. The presence of a mass damper allows th inertia of a great mass to be balanced by a comparatively lightweight structural component, placed in such a way that the block moves in one direction as the structure moves in the other, thus damping the structure's oscillation.
21st March 2007, 11:37
ioan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez

The mass-dampers are a part of the front-suspension, they are strongly connected.

I was not aware of that, and as it was pointed out it isn't the case:

Quote:

Originally Posted by W8&C

Not true: the mass damper system is working independent from the front (or rear) suspension.

Check here: http://www.formula1.com/insight/tech...6/758/291.html

Or like Wikipedia says:

mass dampers stabilize against violent motion caused by harmonic vibration. The presence of a mass damper allows th inertia of a great mass to be balanced by a comparatively lightweight structural component, placed in such a way that the block moves in one direction as the structure moves in the other, thus damping the structure's oscillation.

This is why I asked you about the link, thinking that maybe there is some very subtle technical aspect that I was missing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Heidfeldrulez

Also it reveals how fine-tuned the device was and how little room teams have to deal with (in any part of the car) to instal devices like that.

In fact making the device work has nothing to do with the space available in the car, there is enough as demonstrated by Renault and Ferrari do have a larger nose cone than Renault.
What they needed to do was to calculate the weight of the mass they used as well as the springs they had to use to attach the mass to the car's body.

In fact what might have happened is that the Bridgestone tire's walls, being different from the Michelins, did already stabilize the car and thus the mass damper system was not worth to be developed and used.
21st March 2007, 14:04
93VTEC

Quote:

Originally Posted by ioan

I was not aware of that, and as it was pointed out it isn't the case:

This is why I asked you about the link, thinking that maybe there is some very subtle technical aspect that I was missing.

In fact making the device work has nothing to do with the space available in the car, there is enough as demonstrated by Renault and Ferrari do have a larger nose cone than Renault.
What they needed to do was to calculate the weight of the mass they used as well as the springs they had to use to attach the mass to the car's body.

In fact what might have happened is that the Bridgestone tire's walls, being different from the Michelins, did already stabilize the car and thus the mass damper system was not worth to be developed and used.

LOL He is a car engineer now. Those Renault guys are idiots. Go tell them how to make a car! LOL

Man will try to tell you that the grass is blue and sky green! LOL

Some here should just be ignored.
27th March 2007, 15:34
ioan

Back to movable (only flexible in my opinion, but than I'm no journo!) floors!

The FIA did answer McLaren's questioning of a certain possibility to mount their floor on a device composed of pivots and springs:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/57650

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