Sir Stirling Moss retires at last

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Originally Posted by CarlMetro

fart without needing to change my pants every time .

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Go commando - job done! ;)

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Originally Posted by CarlMetro

He probably thinks the same about you.

We are all entitled to our opinions and many in the past have disagreed with minority or contraversial ones. That is what life is all about. However may I suggest you pop down to your local library or even use t'internet to find out a little about the man and just some of his accomplishments?

From what I've read of your posts, which is not much I admit, you seem to be a bit of a Ferrari/Schumi fan like myself? Go grab yourself any book on Ferrari history and you will find plenty in there that would tell you what Ferrari thought of him. Read any book on Schumi (that's worth reading) and you will find that HE sees Moss as one of the all time greatest drivers, a person whom HE has a deep respect for.

As someone else said, I hope I can still breathe, chew my own food and fart without needing to change my pants every time I do. Let alone still be highly competitive and winning races against much younger competitors at his age.

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I know plenty about Stirling Moss. I don't need to educate myself further on him. Regards the part in bold, I'd love to see a link or reference for that as I never heard Schumacher talk about him anywhere. Also, what Schumacher thinks of Moss has nothing to do with my opinion of him.

As for whom I am a fan of, I have always been a Schumacher, Senna fan foremost. I am also a big fan of Hamilton because of his attitude and inclination towards proper racing.

Whether Moss even reads this forum or not I don't care. I care not what he thinks or believes. I am voicing my opinion and that is that he is overrated, an idiot and also up his own ass. This is my opinion, which I am also entitled to as you said yourself :)

PS: I am definitely not a Ferrari fan.

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

PS: I am definitely not a Ferrari fan.

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Well no one is perfect :p :

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I know plenty about Stirling Moss. I don't need to educate myself further on him. Regards the part in bold, I'd love to see a link or reference for that as I never heard Schumacher talk about him anywhere. Also, what Schumacher thinks of Moss has nothing to do with my opinion of him.

As for whom I am a fan of, I have always been a Schumacher, Senna fan foremost. I am also a big fan of Hamilton because of his attitude and inclination towards proper racing.

Whether Moss even reads this forum or not I don't care. I care not what he thinks or believes. I am voicing my opinion and that is that he is overrated, an idiot and also up his own ass. This is my opinion, which I am also entitled to as you said yourself :)

PS: I am definitely not a Ferrari fan.

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I was always lead to believe that you weren't allowed more than one identity on this forum? The similarities between the ignorant and down right rude drivel you spout and that of another certain tit-head on this forum are remarkable. Do you have a brother by chance?

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Originally Posted by CarlMetro

I was always lead to believe that you weren't allowed more than one identity on this forum? The similarities between the ignorant and down right rude drivel you spout and that of another certain tit-head on this forum are remarkable. Do you have a brother by chance?

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If you call it ignorant and down right drivel that's up to you. I also don't care what you think. I'm voicing my opinion about Moss and I am quite entitled to do that. I'm not blinded by the fact that he is 81 and been around a longtime. I'm looking at his achievements in F1 and they aren't very much.

Instead of resorting to petty name calling to a fellow forum member, perhaps you should try and support your argument? You know, like provide a link to what you claim Schumacher supposedly said about Moss etc

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Originally Posted by The Black Knight

I'm looking at his achievements in F1 and they aren't very much.

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It depends how you measure those achievements. Certainly, when it comes to F1 world titles I will agree with you to a degree, but then that depends on the comparative value you put on the world championship as a measure of greatness, and what or who you're measuring it against. Also, Sir Stirling Moss's achievements in motor sport are not confined to F1. He excelled in any form of racing he chose and was regarded very highly by his peers. In fact he was the standard by which others measured themselves for quite some time.

Perhaps more important than that is the word respect. The respect Sir Stirling had for his fellow competitors, and the respect he received in return, and still does to this day.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

It depends how you measure those achievements. Certainly, when it comes to F1 world titles I will agree with you to a degree, but then that depends on the comparative value you put on the world championship as a measure of greatness, and what or who you're measuring it against. Also, Sir Stirling Moss's achievements in motor sport are not confined to F1. He excelled in any form of racing he chose and was regarded very highly by his peers. In fact he was the standard by which others measured themselves for quite some time.

Perhaps more important than that is the word respect. The respect Sir Stirling had for his fellow competitors, and the respect he received in return, and still does to this day.

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Indeed, he was very honourable on the track and I respect that very much as well. This is also why I regard him as a great driver, he was, and there was no denying that. However, his failure to win the title when he had the chance to me signifies a severe flaw and were he a true great he would have won one when he had the opportunity as far as I'm concerned.

If you measure a persons greatness as managing to succeed in every other form of motorsport other than the pinnacle then I guess one could regard him as a great. However, to me you have to show you can compete and win in the pinaccle consistently and win the championship before it can really be considered that you walk with the all time greats. Moss, sadly, never did that.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

It depends how you measure those achievements...<snip>

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Exactly, and that's why there's always more to "greatness" than mere statistics. I personally regard Moss and Jackie Stewart as "greater" drivers than Schumacher or Senna, for example, even though in MS's case he is clearly the most successful F1 driver by some margin.

Gentlemen - PLEASE!

Everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion, but:

(1) If challenged you must be prepared to justify what you say
(2) At all times your responses should be polite - as a guide, use the same language as you would if talking to someone
(3) Personal criticism is not acceptable

Black Knight,
You triggered this argument with a strongly worded criticism of Sir Stirling Moss on the basis of something you claimed he had said about Schumacher being lucky. I asked you to clarify what he had said and you have so far not done so. Before things get totally out of hand can you say exactly what you believe Sir Stirling said.

Everybody else,
Hold your fire until Black knight has made himself clear as to what he means and don't read more into it.

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Originally Posted by D-Type

Gentlemen - PLEASE!

Everybody is entitled to his/her own opinion, but:

(1) If challenged you must be prepared to justify what you say
(2) At all times your responses should be polite - as a guide, use the same language as you would if talking to someone
(3) Personal criticism is not acceptable

Black Knight,
You triggered this argument with a strongly worded criticism of Sir Stirling Moss on the basis of something you claimed he had said about Schumacher being lucky. I asked you to clarify what he had said and you have so far not done so. Before things get totally out of hand can you say exactly what you believe Sir Stirling said.

Everybody else,
Hold your fire until Black knight has made himself clear as to what he means and don't read more into it.

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I feel I have clarified myself repeatedly in this thread. I'm not sure how you expect me to spell it out more?

Also, I have clearly stated my reasons to why I don't believe Moss to be an all time great. I've clearly stated why I believe him to be an idiot. I've also clearly stated why I believe he has a big ego on him and also why, for a man that never won a world championship, I believe him to be overrated.

I also stated that I respect him for continuing racing all this time and he is a great driver, stated this a few times now, just simply not an all time great.

What more can I clarify really?