From my perspective sustainability is progressing forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
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From my perspective sustainability is progressing forward.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I do believe "sustainability" is related to the number of people on the face of the earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmenke
When it comes to land for people and land for food who do you kill?
I have already more or less given up flying unless I can help it, admittedly in part because I enjoy travelling by rail immensely, but also for environmental reasons.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
And why does progressing forward automatically mean more energy consumption? I don't think it does at all. There is some very exciting technological progress being made in terms of saving energy.
If you can make technological progress to save engergy, but I still get to do the things I want to do, when I want to do them ... I'm all for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
And for you to say that you've "given up" flying but only because you enjoy rail more is a bit silly, honestly. You haven't given up anything, you are enjoying one form of transportation over another. What if I like flying more, should I be forced to give it up? What if I like driving my car, just for the hell of it, are you going to tell me I can't now? What if I just want to be able to turn a light on because it's dark out? Are you the one who decides what I can and can not do now? Why? On who's authority?
Another point, progressing forward pretty much does automatically mean more energy consumption. Take the most extreme example, someone living in poverty in sub-Saharan Africa. How do you propose to improve that person's quality of life without that person consuming more energy? A less extreme example, I want to enhance my quality of life this evening by watching a movie. How do I do that without consuming energy?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Sure......You go live in a cave and I will continue to improve my lifestyle. There. Happy?
Re-read what I wrote. I said that enjoyment is a part of it, but that the environmental impact of my travel is another impact. If you're suggesting I'm lying about the latter aspect, I ask you to take it back. And where have I suggested that you should change your behaviour? Again, re-read what I said. The answer is nowhere. Stop putting words into my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
One would hope that, in the future, they may be able to purchase items that both enhance the quality of their life while consuming less energy than do those items now. That, in my book, would be progress.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
I'd have to turf you out of the cave first, judging by your views on most subjects.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
So enjoyment is part of it, as well as energy. Fine, the point was/is that YOU made that choice. No one made it for you. Perhaps you have not said that I should change my behaviour. But many in the "green" movement are saying just that, we MUST change our ways. And they are more than willing to force us, through schemes like Cap and Trade, taxes, excessive regulations, and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
Yes I hope that they are able to get the things they need at less energy than it takes today. But they will still be consuming more energy than they are today. In order for someone to have clean water, adaquate shelter, access to jobs and all the rest that we would consider "standard", one MUST consume some form of energy. There is just no way around that.Quote:
Originally Posted by BDunnell
There's no 'perhaps' about it. I didn't say it. Like I said, you should stop putting words into my mouth.Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck34
How is that different to Bush who pushed for mandatory bioethanol content in US petrol to rise substantially?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
http://money.cnn.com/2008/03/05/news...anol/index.htm
Your obsession with railing against anyone with power is really revealing. Spoken to your father about that?