Arizona Congresswoman Wounded; Several Killed by Gunman

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Originally Posted by Daniel

I knew you'd agree :)

It just gets up my nose that people don't see the sense in it.

Sure guys like Fousto and Tony are most probably absolutely fine owning a gun and I'm sure would never turn them on someone else, but it's not Fousto or Tony I'm worried about. Is it really worth people's lives to have the freedom to own a gun which you will most likely never need to use?

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Based on what fact- not a the sky-is-falling opinion?

Beyond that gun control proponents love it when this happens, as the Rhambo said- "never let a crisis go to waste."

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Indeed. The fact of someone feeling the need to own one for reasons of security I have never understood. That is indicative either of major societal problems or, more probably given that the fear of crime is always enormously greater than the likelihood of being a victim, a deep-seated sense of paranoia and insecurity — something I feel a fair number of right-wing Americans are affected by, to a much more significant degree than one sees amongst those on the right in European countries.

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You feel, based on what?
Simple ignorance?

From your learned experience, why do cities with the most draconian gun laws have the highest crime rates.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

Or maybe others would have been lost had the law-abiding gun-carrying citizen not known how to use the weapon safely. I would personally feel far less safe knowing there were people brandishing firearms in any sort of crowd, no matter how law-abiding or sensible these individuals may be, than if there were no such weapons present.

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That statement is asininely obtuse based on what you would call "a deep-seated sense of paranoia and insecurity".

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Originally Posted by anthonyvop

So in your world only the state has the right to decide who's life should be protected?

That really saddens me that people actually feel that way.

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Do you believe in the rule of law or do you not?

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

That statement is asininely obtuse based on what you would call [b] "a deep-seated sense of paranoia and insecurity.[/b

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Please try again, this time writing in English without the usual pompous yet inarticulately-used bluster. What is wrong with my saying I would feel less safe in a crowd full of gun-wielders?

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

You feel, based on what?
Simple ignorance?

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My experiences of same. Yourself included.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

From your learned experience, why do cities with the most draconian gun laws have the highest crime rates.

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I don't know. However, do provide us with the benefit of your wisdom on the matter. I trust detailed studies have been conducted, and not under the supervision of Professor Google.

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Originally Posted by shazbot

I'm afraid I'd have to disagree there. Fortunately it is only a hypothetical scenario but what if you had two independant law abiding citizens carrying guns. Who would you shoot? Who's the bad guy? The cops turn up, and who do they shoot? The results don't bear thinking about.

If one has children in the house then I'm sure most people have them very securely locked away and hopefully not loaded (guns that is not children!). In that case how quickly can you get to the gun if you need it? All situations are different of course but if your house gets broken into by a guy carrying a gun are there more likely to be shots fired if you are similarly armed?

There needs to be serious discussion about limiting fire arm ownership.

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You are forwarding ideas totally based on paranoia.

But to make you happy, in Minnesota, a armed man tried to high-jack a car.
The driver to protect his wife, attacked and disarmed the high-jacker.
The wife called 911 on her cell and told them what had happened and that her husband was hold the criminal at gunpoint.
The trained authority arrives, gets out of his car, with a shotgun and shoots the womens husband dead.

Yeah, the only people I want armed are the police, you know, they are super-men unlike the huddled masses who are ignorant fools.

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Originally Posted by Bob Riebe

Yeah, the only people I want armed are the police, you know, they are super-men unlike the huddled masses who are ignorant fools.

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Do you believe in the rule of law?

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Originally Posted by Eki

"The state" is formed of people, all the people in that state, not just of one individual like Charles Manson or you. I certainly wouldn't want Charles Manson or you to have the right to decide whose life should be protected. And the state without people is nothing.

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Is that the same state that ruled over Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia because ALL THE PEOPLE chose so?

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Originally Posted by airshifter

Without getting into my views, why not start a thread on the subject rather than hijack this one? What is done is done and our discussion here of how this people were injured and killed doesn't change the event.

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Fair enough but I think it's a little unfair to label my contribution to this topic as a hijack. This thread is about the dreadful shootings in Arizona and surely it's only a natural and logical progression to examine gun laws? This thread started with the news of a fatal shooting, and that's what we should be discussing, not politics.