Student Riots

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Originally Posted by ioan

I know, this is why I preferred France, where you can not be an engineer only because you have had a technical degree and than worked 5 years in an workshop.
It is very difficult to learn in a workshop the theory that resides behind the design of technological products.
I know people who became 'engineers' in that way and believe me while I am convinced that they can repair almost everything, I would never ever use something they designed if my life depended on it.

One should not be called Diplom Ingenieur if they chose a screw's size using a table in a catalog instead of calculating the size of the screw after having determined the forces that will act on said screw and the coefficient of security needed based on the circumstances in which that part will be used.

But hey, this thread isn't about this, sorry for derailing it. :)

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It is in part about this, though, and it is an interesting topic. In the UK, many people would attend technical college rather than university, and came away perfectly well-qualified in their chosen field. Nowadays, I would imagine that most would probably get the same education at a university, probably to no greater a level and of no greater a standard. You are quite right to say that the higher-end aspects of engineering are best taught at universities; however, the same doesn't apply across the board. There is, I would contend, no need for so many people to graduate with a qualification called a degree from an institution called a university.

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Originally Posted by BDunnell

It is in part about this, though, and it is an interesting topic. In the UK, many people would attend technical college rather than university, and came away perfectly well-qualified in their chosen field. Nowadays, I would imagine that most would probably get the same education at a university, probably to no greater a level and of no greater a standard. You are quite right to say that the higher-end aspects of engineering are best taught at universities; however, the same doesn't apply across the board. There is, I would contend, no need for so many people to graduate with a qualification called a degree from an institution called a university.

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I understand you point.
I believe that it is wrong that the term engineers has been expanded to cover about every technical (and not only) degree that one can dream about. And this brought us to the point where the engineering degree is not specific at all anymore and I can hardly think about any other degree that has been treated like this.
It is like if the universities felt that the term engineer is very very appealing to those who aspire to have a somewhat technical degree.
I believe that the engineering degree should have stayed for those who are in it for innovation in technology, while those who like to implement what engineers develop should have stayed with the technician nomenclature (this is how it is being done in France and I always thought it was right, I might be wrong though :) ).

I have been teaching at a University in France for 5 years, and I had students from engineering schools and technical colleges, and I must say that there is a difference between the ways they want to learn, there is also a difference between the ways they assimilate information and there is a difference between the way we bring them the knowledge they want to have.
Worth mentioning that every year around 10% of the students graduating from the technical college decided to continue their studies in an engineering school, which I have found to be a good way for them to become engineers once they got the taste of it.

As for too many people having university degrees, my way of doing it would be to allow everyone who wants to follow the first year of a higher education establishment, those who can pass the examinations after the first year will go on the others will be kindly asked to try something else for their future (unless they have had special circumstances occurring during first year).
those who are talented in the field of their choice they can go ahead and get the knowledge that will empower them in their professional life.

I would just add that no one should complain regarding the money needed for higher education because let's not forget that everyone pays taxes for a lifetime.

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

People that smash up the Supreme Court and cenotaph deserve a good kicking and nothing else - bring back the SPG.

If they had attacked Obama/Putin's car they would have been shot at.

These students aren't the ones who will find a cure for cancer or unearth a better alternative to petrol FFS these are the ones watching day time tv and then drinking all night whilst moaning about how poor they are before they drive home in their DBC.

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Well perhaps we should be glad that we don't have a ridiculously over-reactive government like that.

Just for the record I know someone who has just graduated with an MA in Media and Film and has gone into a good job with a production company.

I also know students studying for Physics who do nothing all day and get stoned every night. Generalise that.

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Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1

Do you believe that a degree guarantees you a job?

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It should do, are there many unemployed dentists, doctors, opticians, architects, nurses, solicitors etc?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...nt-grants.html

Seems the NUS wanted to clobber the poorest students and the lecturers, they'll fit right in with Labour then.

No point talking about Engineers, rentamob aren't engineering students, just look at them.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/news...nto-death.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-Cenotaph.html

see not an engineer, they'd know better than to defile the cenotaph, if a football fan had done this the nation would be baying for them to be locked up for years.

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Originally Posted by AndySpeed

Well perhaps we should be glad that we don't have a ridiculously over-reactive government like that.

Just for the record I know someone who has just graduated with an MA in Media and Film and has gone into a good job with a production company.

I also know students studying for Physics who do nothing all day and get stoned every night. Generalise that.

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Exception that proves the rule

We have enough media students now

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Originally Posted by ioan

Who told you those were students?
Every time there is a public manifestation like this, there will be extremist idiots who will take advantage in order to destroy some stuff without risking too much.

I do not believe that those who were there to ask for affordable access to Unis were the ones who were violent.
You are swallowing what the politicians and the mass media serve you without first filtering it.

No $hit, how do you know that?

You are again talking out of your rear and generalizing without intimate knowledge of the situation.

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Please see Telegraph links re students damaging our flag, urinating on Churchill's statue and the defiling the cenotaph. Apology accepted.

I don't but feel free to try it, 1000 years in the Gulag would solve these students finance worries.

Have you been a student in the UK then and graduated and paid UK taxes?

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Originally Posted by Bolton Midnight

Please see Telegraph links re students damaging our flag, urinating on Churchill's statue and the defiling the cenotaph. Apology accepted.

I don't but feel free to try it, 1000 years in the Gulag would solve these students finance worries.

Have you been a student in the UK then and graduated and paid UK taxes?

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What apologies are you dreaming about?!
I will never apologize to one who takes the mass media for true without using his own discerning aptitudes and talks gibberish and generalizes extreme views.

What do you know about gulags? Why do you talk about stuff you do not understand?

Do I need to graduate and pay taxes in the UK to tell you that you are posting discriminative rubbish?! :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by AndySpeed

I also know students studying for Physics who do nothing all day and get stoned every night. Generalise that.

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yep, the physics students I knew were also typical students ;) :erm: :laugh:
:bandit:

I don't understand the argument that the increase in fees is going to put the poor students off from going to university? How exactly? There are still no upfront costs. Student loans aren't only just given out to the rich.

As a recent graduate I don't have an issue with having to pay back my student debts. I know that I will only have to pay them back when I'm earning enough to afford it.

I also don't have an issue that people didn't have to pay in the past. The current system is unsustainable. We can't afford to pay for 50% of 18 year old to go to university.

My biggest grievance is that the highest earners pay less for university in the long-run. This is because they pay the loan off faster. This means it gathers less interest. The loan should be interest free.

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Originally Posted by ioan

What apologies are you dreaming about?!
I will never apologize to one who takes the mass media for true without using his own discerning aptitudes and talks gibberish and generalizes extreme views.

What do you know about gulags? Why do you talk about stuff you do not understand?

Do I need to graduate and pay taxes in the UK to tell you that you are posting discriminative rubbish?! :rolleyes:

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No I figured you'd not apologise despite posting complete pish.

If you were paying for these tossers to dick about doing worthless degrees then maybe you'd not be so keen on the idea.

Read this
http://www.factsonfees.com/
perish the thought you might actually learn something about what is being discussed here.