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Dodge left because they won everything and their business plan had run it's course.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Saleen just plain ran out of money.
Ferrari was stopping production of the 575 and the replacement wasn't a good replacement under the rules. Ferrari was never "Officially" in the series but providing assistance to certain teams.
Lack of ROI, I would say. What did it cost the manufacturers to run vs. the return?Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Riebe
Gearheads tend to be fanbois to certain marques (nothing wrong with that, hell, look at my screen name!). Jimmie Johnson winning in his Chevy might make me cheer if I was a Chevy guy. But that has little to do with how, or how good my Chevy pickup truck might be engineered and built. The first Jaguar I bought was built in the year that Jag won an epic battle at Le Mans. I bought that model year primarily for that reason. I'm a fanboi for Jags. But I was not, and am not under any illusion that the ontrack success had anything to do with how good or bad my car was. I do give props to Honda for successfully rotating engineers through the racing programs, so as to better train them in areas of problem solving, while under severe time constraints. I'm told that it was like a Six Sigma course on steroids. But outside of that... meh :dozey:Quote:
Many, many, especially gear-head fans, find the engines under a NASCAR stocker closely related to how good the company making street cars is.
Ford did not abandone it genuine production based V-8 till this year.
Especially these days (in the U.S.), the manufacturers want to win, or at least place well... and have the best/most well known drivers/teams that they can get in their cars. For the most part, it is a marketing exercise. The more eyeballs your series can attract, the more likely it is that they'll devote resources to your series. Lose the eyeballs and, well... why would they spend the same or more to get less exposure?
Let's not pretend that Toyota's main goal in getting into NASCAR was NOT primarily based on a marketing exercise. And yes, it has worked quite well. If it stops working, don't expect them to keep hanging around though. And if they leave, I don't think that's going to mean that Camrys and Tundras will suddenly start coming to a halt (or not stopping :D ) along the road.Quote:
If it did not sell cars why did Toyota, have its U.S. racing branch, build a new engine.
So does AIG. Shovel enough money at any business and it can continue to exist - if that's all the goal is (basic existence). Has the IRL ever turned the first dime of profit? Well, OK then. At least AIG did have its good years before sinking the ship.Quote:
George has poorly managed his IRL since day one, yet it still exists.
Yes, no cars = no races. And no sponsors = no teams, no teams = no races. I don't feel like going in circles here. Regarding my quoted post, it's not a completely either/or proposition. The point being, screw up enough of the major input variables that go into running a racing series (or any other business for that matter) and you are necessarily screwed. That is just a simple fact of business.Quote:
OH by the way, engine and chassis rules are priority one, for a racing sanction. No cars, no races, so yes in that manner management and marketing failure with the basic rules was/is the major failure.
And the (faux) Team Lotus in F1 is powered by a Cosworth (owned by Kalkhoven). Interestingly enough, this "Lotus" in the IRL is prepped by Kalkhoven's KV team. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by naracingfan
I've read that Cosworth may be in line to help Lotus (the car company) develop some new engines (Toyota based?) for their road cars. But the various Lotus racing teams have a strange sort of connection to the car company. In any case, they're not really one and the same.
But with that said, now that I think about it... I wouldn't be surprised to see Kalkhoven/Cosworth develop an IRL engine under these rules and try to get Lotus (Hyundai, Pep Boys, etc.) or somebody to badge them. So you may be onto something! :up:
Yet the Dodge continued to race and win, in Europe.Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonyvop
Dodge built the Viper Comp. coupe for the SCCA series, but did not attempt to re-enter the ALMS; whilst having it made legal for GT3 in Europe.
The winning Saleens, suffered a performance penalty after its last win.
The most competitive team quit and continued to race and win in Europe.
The one/s that remained became also rans.
The Ferrari that came within a hairs-breadth of beating the factory Chevy team was the 550. The main cars were the privateer cars from Prodrive.
The factory 575 came about because it embarrassed the factory that a privateer team could take their car and win without their help.
Ferraris, made early token attempts in 2004, and then left, but continued to race and win in Europe.
After Ferrari almost beat Chevy in 2003. Chevy did not lose again, not that they had much real competition, till Aston Martin bitched until Chevy received a performance penalty.
Hmm, after 2003, all continued to race and win in Europe, yet in the U.S. it was Chevy racing against itself, and privateers who could finish higher than third only if one of the team Corvettes did not finish.
After 2003, Chevy did not loose another race till Aston Martin bitched so loudly that the rules were changed till, the Corvette was an also ran, so Chevy bitched till the Aston Martin was penalized enough to let the Chevy win.
So Aston Martin, quit and left.
The only privateer that tried a Corvette in the U.S., was told they would get factory assistance,(but no factory only cylinder heads) but were barely an also ran; after which they got rid of the Corvette.
Your reasons do not hold up.
Sounds more like they got tired of the continual sanctioning body screwing with the rules, deciding who would win, (remember they could and did adjust the rules as they felt to slow a car down, or speed another up) in the U.S. and finally said to hell with it.
As an aside, this very rule dickering is the only thing that made the prototype class not a boring runaway, when they changed the rules so the p2 Porsche could equal and beat, the P1 Audi.
Of course Audi bitched loudly about the unfair rule dickering.
It looks obvious that Honda is the only one with a commitment. They were the ones who pushed for V6 2.4L. It seems that the world engine will be the I4 so they tried to include it with these rules. So before the worldengine is announced I don't expect any commitments from any other manufacturers than Honda and Cosworth.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior
1. I wish the reg writers had 1/2 the intelligence shown in the majority of these posts!
2. I like the new regs. It invites a lot of new marketing. Ford could run Ecoboost turbo V6s, Chevy turbo 4s (Buick Regal, Cobalt SS), Subbie flat 4s, Porsche flat 6, etc, etc.
I think one thing that IRL has learned is that it saves a little money doing specs, but loses the money on marketing. When you have three makes competing, they all run commercials bragging and also selling the series (as in NASCAR). When you have one spec engine, why should they bother advertising?
As for "performance balancing", look at the ALMS as a good example. Has anyone watched the races this year? Laguna Seca was a 6 hour sprint race in the GT2 category between 4 makes. Even the prototypes were running close. I think they are doing a great job making sure everyone has a chance at winning. BTW, they use air restrictors to limit HP, but no rev limits. Hence, the Corvette revs to 7k and the Ferrari to 10k+
As an aside, the 1100hp BMW F1 engine was only reliable for a few qualifying laps and ran on exotic custom fuel. It is from a completely different era.
Another aside: Interesting about Khalkoven and Lotus. However, note that the street cars Lotus does not own the Lotus F1 rights. Also, Lotus street cars use Toyota engines, but are owned by Malaysian car maker Proton. Very confusing family tree.
One more thing: get rid of push to pass. I haven't seen a pass that was made because of it and the annoying announcers just keep talking about it because the racing is so bad. Let's just leave the passing to the drivers!
I agree, push-to-pass is to overtaking what prostitution is to sex. If you can't do it on merit you might as well not do it at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr-914
In addition to Honda... Ford, Renault and Audi, says Robin Miller. :confused:
I'd love to see Ford badge a Cosworth again because then all would be right with the world... my world, anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jag_Warrior