Hamilton's Driving

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Originally Posted by Daniel

You seem to have forgotten the rule which someone mentioned in another thread which says that Button can do what he wants and almost cause pileups but if two drivers get released at the same time and one gets more wheelspin than the other which results in them essentially going for the same bit of tarmac then he's evil! Evil I tell you!

Personally I didn't think anything Schumacher did was wrong though, he was tough but fair. He put his car where the others wanted to put their car or squeezed the other drivers gently enough that they had time to react.

What Alonso did was amazingly bad though.

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yeah, I watched the race again and MSC, as you said, was tough but fair.

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Originally Posted by F1boat

I am very happy that there are no penalties. Once again the new FIA under Todt shows that it does not want to mess with the race results. That's what I hoped to see from Jean!

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at the end of the day, I have to agree with you. Although I still think the Button restart was of low class. And the Alonso/Massa situation seemed to be left to the team to sort it out, because I think if it was another car there would have been a penalty.

But as you say it is somewhat refreshing to have a race without unnecessary penalties, and perhaps I just have to get fully readjusted back to a proper race without the police state like stewarding of years past.

so thumbs up to Todt for this refreshing approach.

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Originally Posted by airshifter

As for the Lewis and Vettel incident on pit release, on first view I immediately thought Lewis should have been penalized. Upon slow motion replay I changed my opinion, and thought that if anything Vettel forced the bad situation. Once side by side Vettel gave Lewis no room at first, and the only way Lewis could have backed off was to move further towards the pit boxes, as otherwise their wheels could have tangled.

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BUT why were they still side by side down the pit lane??

I agree that they were released very close to the same time. Vettel marginally before, but as they said on the BBC you can't expect a lollipop man to be checking not just pit lane but everyones pit box. That was excusable.

What was NOT excusable was that Vettel was a 2 metres ahead of Hamilton AND on the driving part of pitlane. Hamilton was on the side of pitlane, outside white lines and marginally missing airguns and all sorts.

It was ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE for Lewis to race in that fashion which he did. He should have backed off immediately seeing that Vettel was ahead of him and that he had no lane. Instead he raced all the way down pitlane side by side amongst mechanics and air guns etc.

For those saying that Vettel moved over.... why shouldn't he!? Hamilton had no lane! Why should Vettel try to accommodate someone who is somewhere they simply shouldn't be.

Fact is that Hamilton did the wrong thing and, being the FIA loveboy that he is, managed to get away without a penalty of any sort.

ABSOLUTE CORRUPTION. Simple as that. There is no excuse for what happened. Yes the release was very close to the same time but Hamilton, seeing that he had no lane, should have backed off and moved in instead of fishtailing (he's good at that) down pit lane amongst the other team space.

Look how close the equipment is to Hamiltons car. Had he grabbed an airgun with his wheel it could all have been very different.

For 10 seconds Lewis was next to, but marginally behind, Vettel down pitlane. It is NOT Vettels responsibility to make sure there is room for two cars. Vettel clearly got out first and Hamilton should have yielded but did not.

And, if almost comedic, Hamilton has the cheek to wave his arm in the air at the end of the pitlane to say to Vettel "hey, why'd ya move over.... I was trying to overtake you in the pitlane and you moved across on me".

I don't understand how anyone could defend this.... least of all the FIA.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/398...ltonvettel.jpg

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Originally Posted by Ari

BUT why were they still side by side down the pit lane??

I agree that they were released very close to the same time. Vettel marginally before, but as they said on the BBC you can't expect a lollipop man to be checking not just pit lane but everyones pit box. That was excusable.

What was NOT excusable was that Vettel was a 2 metres ahead of Hamilton AND on the driving part of pitlane. Hamilton was on the side of pitlane, outside white lines and marginally missing airguns and all sorts.

It was ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE for Lewis to race in that fashion which he did. He should have backed off immediately seeing that Vettel was ahead of him and that he had no lane. Instead he raced all the way down pitlane side by side amongst mechanics and air guns etc.

For those saying that Vettel moved over.... why shouldn't he!? Hamilton had no lane! Why should Vettel try to accommodate someone who is somewhere they simply shouldn't be.

Fact is that Hamilton did the wrong thing and, being the FIA loveboy that he is, managed to get away without a penalty of any sort.

ABSOLUTE CORRUPTION. Simple as that. There is no excuse for what happened. Yes the release was very close to the same time but Hamilton, seeing that he had no lane, should have backed off and moved in instead of fishtailing (he's good at that) down pit lane amongst the other team space.

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Ari, you really don't like Hamilton and it is jading your views of the whole matter, as it is your take on the relationship the FIA have with Hamilton, which is far from great as the many past decision against him have proven.

But lets not let something like the facts or a sensible view of things take away from your fantastical rant :|

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Originally Posted by Ari

Look how close the equipment is to Hamiltons car. Had he grabbed an airgun with his wheel it could all have been very different.

For 10 seconds Lewis was next to, but marginally behind, Vettel down pitlane. It is NOT Vettels responsibility to make sure there is room for two cars. Vettel clearly got out first and Hamilton should have yielded but did not.

And, if almost comedic, Hamilton has the cheek to wave his arm in the air at the end of the pitlane to say to Vettel "hey, why'd ya move over.... I was trying to overtake you in the pitlane and you moved across on me".

I don't understand how anyone could defend this.... least of all the FIA.

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/398...ltonvettel.jpg

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comedy, your pictures actually strengthen the stance the stewards took which was to correctly reprimand both, although I think Vettel really was not playing nice in the pits. As you clearly see in your pictures, Vettel is all the way to the right edge of the line although he had plenty of room to move inside "as to not make the situation dangerous" but as I said. its hard to reason with folks who let their distaste blind them to the facts.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

comedy, your pictures actually strengthen the stance the stewards took which was to correctly reprimand both, although I think Vettel really was not playing nice in the pits. As you clearly see in your pictures, Vettel is all the way to the right edge of the line although he had plenty of room to move inside "as to not make the situation dangerous" but as I said. its hard to reason with folks who let their distaste blind them to the facts.

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I agree. When I watched the action in slow motion there was already contact between Hamiltons front tire and Vettels rear at about the time Hamilton got going straight, as Vettel was squeezing him in. In that posted photo Lewis is already to the right of the pit lines, and the only way to give Vettel more room would be to move farther into the pit box areas.

It's not as if Lewis had any safe way to lift and allow Vettel to move forward to he could tuck in behind him. To do so would have risked more contact between the two cars potentially sending the cars into the wall filled with team engineers, or the pit boxes or garages filled with mechanics.

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Originally Posted by COD

What race were you watching???

Hamilton made a crazy move, didn't respect white lines on entry to pitlane. Then made a crazy getaway from pitbox, sliding like hell, thus dangering picrews on several teams. Vettels slide was far less sideways.

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He slid because he had to turn sharply to avoid Vettel. That makes it more the fault of those who released him into the path of another car than his. I have seen several drivers having to take evasive action such as Hamiltons, unfortunately thats what lower peripheral vision from the cockpit will entail.

However in retrospect, judging from the pictures, it was very clear that for a considerable amount of the time that Hamilton had enough of a gap not to lock wheels, and hence should have dropped behind Vettel.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

Ari, you really don't like Hamilton and it is jading your views of the whole matter, as it is your take on the relationship the FIA have with Hamilton, which is far from great as the many past decision against him have proven.

But lets not let something like the facts or a sensible view of things take away from your fantastical rant :|

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Fair points.

And no, I don't like Hamilton. You'd be happy I didn't post last night and decided to sleep on it instead. ;)

True re the other FIA/Hamilton clashing of heads. I just don't understand how such blatantly unsafe driving could sit with only a reprimand, particularly after his 'talking' at the conclusion of the last Grand Prix.

Each to their own though!

And I think Hamilton is a fantastic racing driver... I just don't like the way he goes about his business at times.

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Originally Posted by truefan72

comedy, your pictures actually strengthen the stance the stewards took which was to correctly reprimand both, although I think Vettel really was not playing nice in the pits. As you clearly see in your pictures, Vettel is all the way to the right edge of the line although he had plenty of room to move inside "as to not make the situation dangerous" but as I said. its hard to reason with folks who let their distaste blind them to the facts.

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I agree with you 100%. Vettel DID make things unsafe by moving across which was, for safetys sake, absolutely the wrong thing to do.

My question though, as I said above, is what right did Hamilton have to be there in the first place. He came out of his pit bay a couple metres behind Vettel and Vettel had the lane. He should have yielded..... instead he tried to race two-wide down pitlane which obviously is not acceptable.

I don't for a moment think Vettel is absolutely innocent. As soon as he moved over on Hamilton he takes some guilt. No doubting.