If the USA kept its nose out of other peoples business, then the world and the US would be a safer place...
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If the USA kept its nose out of other peoples business, then the world and the US would be a safer place...
they tried that in 1939. Then they were condemened for NOT getting involved. WE saw how well THAT worked out, ignoring that fella Hitler and that other fine example of humanity, Tadeki Tojo.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_spackman
You ever actually read history books of what has happened in the past and realized that simple solution are often not solutions at all?
Simplisitic tripe. People want to kill Americans and by extention most of the peoples of the west not for any reason than the fact we have what often they do not. That may or may not be partially be our or America' fault, but unlike you, I don't think it justifies terrorist acts against civilians. THat's ok, you and Eki defend terrorism with your moral relvence and crap....
America defends and carries out acts of terrorism, so dont think that they are innocent coz they are far from that Mark and YOU know it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Name one ACT of terrorism. The invasion of Iraq is controversal, but isn't terrorism. Ditto Afghanistan.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_spackman
Since when did rogue Americans run around the world hijacking and killing in the name of some nebulous cause?
You confuse terrorism with realpoltik. All large nation states are not saints, neither your UK or the USA have been total virgins I agree BUT I wouldn't call either nation supporters of terrorism. Funding and supplying contra groups fighting communism in the 80's was I suppose a form of state supported terrorism, but as I said, the Chinese do it, the Iranians do it, the Russians do it...the UK has done it. Very few major powers are walking around with clean hands on this one.
However, I look at the US, and I usually see them at some level trying to do the right thing. I will say for the most part, they at least have some debate about their actions and there is an accounting for their misdeeds. Do the Russians lose sleep over their oppression of the Chechens? Iran lose sleep over giving the North Koreans missle technology, supporting Hezbollah or the Shiite radicals planting roadside bombs in Iraq?
How about the French losing sleep over their support of some pretty slimy characters in Africa?
Steve, you cant hold the USA to a different standard. Sorry...you want to judge all nations by this standard, you might only see the Scandinavians and Maybe Canada ( maybe...I am sure we have done something stupid somewhere ) as having pure motives. You want to condemn the Yanks that's fine, then spread it around and be fair and nail everyone....
I agree with you Mark..seriously i really do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
But a few certain people on these forums have great enjoyment bashing other countries, yet its not fair if someone gives the US a quick stabbing in rerturn.
If these people get crappy when the US gets a quick bashing, they shouldnt dish it out!
you Mean Fousto and Anthony? I suspect they either don't care or are ignorant in it I agree BUT there are Americans such as Chuck who are just justifiably proud of their country, as we all are about our nations while giving a good debate and defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_spackman
I can bash Americans in ways they cant always refute since I have spent a lot of time down there and have taken their history and compared it to Canada's experiences and understand the drives that created many of the policies in the US. My point tho is my complete respect for not just the US, but any nation that democratically elects its leadership and holds for the most part the rule of law and a definable constitution with individual rights. The USA was the first nation to really create that and much of the rights we enjoy to day are as a result of the fact the Americans forced the issue. Their revolution spawned the French Revolution, and the very rapid opening up and democratic advances in Westminister and the Commonwealth of nations. They didn't invent freedom, but they gave it a loud voice....
I know where you are coming from on that oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
i would have to disagree with you on that oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
You will. Doesn't change the reality tho. We members of the Commonwealth surely were a bit more cautious and measused in how we evolved into our current democratic systems, but the Yank's started from scratch with a radical idea and a revolution. You may not like it, but they did pretty well with it, even if they did sort of ignore that bit about all men being equal for their first 80 or so years of nation hood.....Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_spackman
Good point, the US Army is volunteer, the Finnish Army is not. And the prisoners in Guantanamo aren't there voluntarily either. A US soldier can be sure in his training that he will be yanked up before he drowns, the Guantanamo prisoners can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa