The 2009 IndyCar Series schedule:

There are promoters who are willing to invest money in those races. I can not prove it, nor can you, but my educated guess is that TG does not care to "risk" adding those races. Surely, it is his business and a business that is quickly proving to be a failure among many.

My nebulous comment regarding the ICS and the former CC fans is simple. Many CC fans "probably" (since I can not prove it) failed to follow along with the so-called "merger." That is an important market base that the ICS is losing. Surely, I do not expect a phone call. However, I could lie and say that they called me, but then you would ask me to prove it. Is that ICS doing enough to market itself?

TG game may be the only game in town, but that does not mean I or others have to follow along. I will follow along, because I care about OWR. I will complain because I care. If TG vision goes against my beliefs, I like others, will be the first to complain.

well i like it except for one exception. Do we really need 4 street courses. Take away detroit and find a way for michigan if you must have a race in michigan(I happen to love mis myself) or if it must be a roadcourse figure out a way to send it to cleveland. An occasional streetrace is nice but not 4. Road America would be a nice replacement of Detroit also. I also read an interesting idea at alms website also. Why not Sebring? I bet it would draw a lot better crowd then homestead and be a better race also.

david

So the theme on this forum seems to be, "we get what we get and we don't throw a fit"!!

I'm not happy until this series resembles more of what CART's hayday looked like!!

There are some great tracks out there that are a racers dream!

Those are the tracks I truly enjoy! Although without the right car/engine formula it's all for not!!

What happened with "The Vanderbilt Cup" trophy TG said he would like to pay tribute to? Is he really going to embrace any of this??


When he spoke after the so callled "merger", at the press conference, Tony George seemed to embrace what assets Champcar had to strengthen Indycar, and bring back open wheel to it's glory. Of course there is alot of work to be done in other areas too, but I'm speaking of the great courses, car design, turbo's, and the legacy that should be embedded into Indycar.

People may disagree, but when he bought CART/Champcar, he's now holding its heart.

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Originally Posted by Wilf

I've long ago sworn off debating ratings, I'll leave that to people understand them. As far as providing the teams that participate in the Indianapolis 500 with a schedule of races which owners can use to justify the expense of building/buying a car for Indianapolis as well as provide more exposure for the teams' sponsor(s) he has succeeded.

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Wait, you don't "Understand ratings" but your confident there is "More exposure for teams. Yeah, sure. The ratings have been sliced in half, crowds are down, they're racing in tiny markets like Richmond and Iowa and somehow thats better than California and Michigan?

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Originally Posted by MDS

Wait, you don't "Understand ratings" but your confident there is "More exposure for teams. Yeah, sure. The ratings have been sliced in half, crowds are down, they're racing in tiny markets like Richmond and Iowa and somehow thats better than California and Michigan?

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I find it hard to believe the ratings have been sliced in half since 1996, but like I said, I'll leave ratings arguments to those who understand them. The object of a schedule for races outside of the Indianapolis 500 is to provide the teams that participate in the Indianapolis 500 with a schedule of races which owners can use to justify the expense of building/buying a car for Indianapolis as well as provide more exposure for the teams' sponsor(s).

Would you not agree there is a schedule of races other than the Indianapolis 500?

Don't the car owners use their Indianapolis style cars in those races?

And fianally, do the teams and their sponsors gain additional exposure by participating in those races?

Those are the reasons to have a schedule beyond the Indianapolis 500.

I'll let the inclusion or exclusion of individual races be debated by people much more knowledgeable than me.

As I said before: Is everything perfect? Far from it. Is AOWR heading in the right direction. One year is too short a period to claim as a trend, but there is positive momentum.

IMO, there are some here who do not understand what goes into formulating a schedule.

You hafta have a race track and promoter, sanctioning body and TV agree on a date and time that is based on where it fits or doesn't fit for everybody. It needs to be places sponsors and teams want to go to be attractive. What the event is up against, both locally and on TV, must be considered (witness CC's Road America date opposite the EAA convention in Oshkosh one year). And the promoter and the sanctioning body must strike a bargain on fee. Plus all the little things.

It MUST work financially. Why aren't more CC tracks on this schedule? Many reasons: A) Several were underwritten by KK, GF or CC itself and lost money; B) No doubt those in the know have REAL attendance figures on 'em.

Michigan and Phoenix? IMO, the IRL would like to run both. They are ISC tracks, NASCAR scheduling gets in the way of Phoenix after ISC bought it and ruined the idea and heritage of the Copper World Classic and the Indy cars there. Michigan, it would seem, can't strike a bargain with the IRL and vice versa.

Portland, Cleveland, Houston? No money. Mexico City? Who knows if there's even a promoter these days? Mont Tremblant? Is it as good as Edmonton and Toronto? Surfers? The series is going there in a couple months, but date for 2009 is a question mark. Road America? The way CART and CC dealt with that track all those years, it may wish to take a sabbatical or put someone else at risk, like a track rental, and the IRL won't go for that.

This is a work in progress and will be for some time in the future. The ills of a 12-year split aren't going to get cured in six months. The CC teams got a generous deal on equipment to stay whole and stay in the sport when this took place. That's why you still see Wilson, Rahal, Junqueira, etc., still racing.

Peace.

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Originally Posted by Rogelio

There are promoters who are willing to invest money in those races. I can not prove it, nor can you, but my educated guess is that TG does not care to "risk" adding those races. Surely, it is his business and a business that is quickly proving to be a failure among many.

My nebulous comment regarding the ICS and the former CC fans is simple. Many CC fans "probably" (since I can not prove it) failed to follow along with the so-called "merger." That is an important market base that the ICS is losing. Surely, I do not expect a phone call. However, I could lie and say that they called me, but then you would ask me to prove it. Is that ICS doing enough to market itself?

TG game may be the only game in town, but that does not mean I or others have to follow along. I will follow along, because I care about OWR. I will complain because I care. If TG vision goes against my beliefs, I like others, will be the first to complain.

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Who are these promoters? What "risk" would there be to add these races if TG is not the promoter and the dates don't conflict with existing contracts that the ICS has? What would TG have to lose?

You still have not said what you expect for the ICS to do to communicate with this disenfranchised consumer base from the CCWS ranks. You said they need to improve the communications with this group. I asked how they could do this. You still have not answered the "how". You only restated that they haven't communicated. I am not sure what it is you expect them to do? Is there some CCWS mailing list that they should buy. Should they go to the CCF forum and post messages?

I too will follow along. I too will complain when "king George" makes stupid moves. But I will also question when some of my brethren in the former CART/Champ Car fan base make demands that are untenable.

Gary

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Originally Posted by jimispeed

So the theme on this forum seems to be, "we get what we get and we don't throw a fit"!!

I'm not happy until this series resembles more of what CART's hayday looked like!!

There are some great tracks out there that are a racers dream!

Those are the tracks I truly enjoy! Although without the right car/engine formula it's all for not!!

What happened with "The Vanderbilt Cup" trophy TG said he would like to pay tribute to? Is he really going to embrace any of this??


When he spoke after the so callled "merger", at the press conference, Tony George seemed to embrace what assets Champcar had to strengthen Indycar, and bring back open wheel to it's glory. Of course there is alot of work to be done in other areas too, but I'm speaking of the great courses, car design, turbo's, and the legacy that should be embedded into Indycar.

People may disagree, but when he bought CART/Champcar, he's now holding its heart.

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The theme is more "we get what we get, but don't throw a fit asking for something that isn't available". Where are the promoters for these tracks you want to add? Where are the business plans for a VIABLE return on investment. Oh, no did I really say that dirty phrase "return on investment"? Yep, I sure as hell did. Without it, we go back to series promoted races and we all know where THAT led us don't we? This sport is a BUSINESS first and foremost. The sooner you realize that the sooner you will begin to understand the rationale behind the process that decides which tracks get dates. Many of the ones on the schedule have existing contracts. The new ones added had real, viable plans where it was possible for a promoter to make money. The rest of the ones we all want, and trust me I want them too, places like RA and Cleveland, just don't have a viable plan in place that will make money.

Do you really think TG would not want Cleveland on the schedule if it could be done without affecting existing contracts and if it could be done while turning a profit? Why would he NOT want it? What possible reason could he have to not want one of the year in and year out almost universally acclaimed most exciting street/road races in the US?

Gary

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Originally Posted by garyshell

The theme is more "we get what we get, but don't throw a fit asking for something that isn't available". Where are the promoters for these tracks you want to add? Where are the business plans for a VIABLE return on investment. Oh, no did I really say that dirty phrase "return on investment"? Yep, I sure as hell did. Without it, we go back to series promoted races and we all know where THAT led us don't we? This sport is a BUSINESS first and foremost. The sooner you realize that the sooner you will begin to understand the rationale behind the process that decides which tracks get dates. Many of the ones on the schedule have existing contracts. The new ones added had real, viable plans where it was possible for a promoter to make money. The rest of the ones we all want, and trust me I want them too, places like RA and Cleveland, just don't have a viable plan in place that will make money.

Do you really think TG would not want Cleveland on the schedule if it could be done without affecting existing contracts and if it could be done while turning a profit? Why would he NOT want it? What possible reason could he have to not want one of the year in and year out almost universally acclaimed most exciting street/road races in the US?

Gary

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What a shame that the tracks favored most by the drivers can't get their act together!!

Isn't there anything that Indycar can do to make it more desirable for these organizations??

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Originally Posted by indycool

IMO, there are some here who do not understand what goes into formulating a schedule.

You hafta have a race track and promoter, sanctioning body and TV agree on a date and time that is based on where it fits or doesn't fit for everybody. It needs to be places sponsors and teams want to go to be attractive. What the event is up against, both locally and on TV, must be considered (witness CC's Road America date opposite the EAA convention in Oshkosh one year). And the promoter and the sanctioning body must strike a bargain on fee. Plus all the little things.

It MUST work financially. Why aren't more CC tracks on this schedule? Many reasons: A) Several were underwritten by KK, GF or CC itself and lost money; B) No doubt those in the know have REAL attendance figures on 'em.

Michigan and Phoenix? IMO, the IRL would like to run both. They are ISC tracks, NASCAR scheduling gets in the way of Phoenix after ISC bought it and ruined the idea and heritage of the Copper World Classic and the Indy cars there. Michigan, it would seem, can't strike a bargain with the IRL and vice versa.

Portland, Cleveland, Houston? No money. Mexico City? Who knows if there's even a promoter these days? Mont Tremblant? Is it as good as Edmonton and Toronto? Surfers? The series is going there in a couple months, but date for 2009 is a question mark. Road America? The way CART and CC dealt with that track all those years, it may wish to take a sabbatical or put someone else at risk, like a track rental, and the IRL won't go for that.

This is a work in progress and will be for some time in the future. The ills of a 12-year split aren't going to get cured in six months. The CC teams got a generous deal on equipment to stay whole and stay in the sport when this took place. That's why you still see Wilson, Rahal, Junqueira, etc., still racing.

Peace.

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You nailed this on the head, IC.

It gets a little tiring for these former fanatics who are still waiting for CC to return and hoping TG will fail. They are complaining and making discussion of what "should" be an IRL way of doing things. This is one reason why CC failed. CC owners and CC management put in these fanatics heads for many years now how to put hope on their fanatics' heads although they are just being brainwashed. It gets really annoying now.

It's only about six months for these two series united and these fanatics thinks the series is a failure. What should I expect from these guys?

Anyways, now that all team owners, good drivers, and sponsors are under one roof, this is way much better for an opportunity to grow. CART's Long Beach and IRL's I500 is now under one roof like it was 12 years ago, this series has two marquee events. The reality is that since this is one series now, obviously, some tracks that IRL and CC listed on their schedule will eventually won't make it to this one series' schedule. And as the series grow and as years to come, some tracks will be added, some tracks will be removed, and some track could likely be returning to the schedule. It's about the promoter and money to put make it on next year's schedule.

Adding event on the schedule is not even about what track needs to be added on the schedule but it's more of, "who's paying for it".