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You know what? Juist remeber that these things go both ways. And since what goes around comes around I can't wait to see what you are going to say when Ferrari is going to do the same. I already know that you are going to flip flop and start ranting how Ferrari is unfair, and all that trash. Just be man enough to remember what you say and stick to your story. That' all I have to say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valve Bounce
It appears you are already wearing rose colored glasses. Lewis was much faster than his team mate last weekend. Rubens was clearly the better driver when Ferrari "suggested" he let Michael by.Quote:
Originally Posted by ioan
The difference here boils down to which driver or team you support. McLaren naysayers are like vultures looking for the first sign of road kill (even if the varmit still has life in it). Now the FIA has impounded LH's engine, just when I thought the "F" didn't mean Ferrari. You'd think this witch hunt would be history by now.
So you know exactly was said on the radio do you?
Threads like this are the main reason I dont post much on F1 forums as theres too many people out there that think they know, nut actually just believe what they want to make up.
If you had a driver that was over half a second faster than his team mate and fighting for the championship youd expect them to swap places.
And I won't deny it, unlike you and some other wearing the silver tainted glasses! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by pits4me
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Now that is rich.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArrowsFA1
Time and time again you've been asked to substantiate your claims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocrisy
For the record, I have no problem with Hamilton passing Kovalienen, team-orders or not.
i'll try to keep it short, it seems the problem is not that order, but the fact that "McLaren fans" have defended the move(apparently thats what everyone who disagrees with "Ferrari fans" must be, i'll also take "Hypocrites" instead of Mac fans ;) )
the way i see it, there is a rule against team orders, and that came around as a direct response to Austria 2002 where the result was switched to no net benefit of the team. The rule may be worded poorly, but the intention IMO is to prevent teams from switching their drivers as they see fit to gain a couple of points for one driver to the detriment of the other, especially at the point in a year when the points made little difference.
it appears there was certainly at least a request for Heikki to let a faster Lewis past, however it was clear that Lewis should not have been behind Heikki, that he was clearly the faster driver on the day. had they not made that request Lewis may not have got past, or not in time to catch and pass the other 2. If Heikki had been on a pace to catch and pass the leaders then this is a different story, but releasing the faster of the 2 cars happens somewhere in the field in most races, especially when they are on different strategies, or when the net result is a gain for the team - i don't see threads all over the place calling rule breakages for those - a little Hypocritical no?
it seems pretty reasonable to suggest that if Heikki had not moved over (ordered or not) then McLaren would have had a worse result than they finally acheived. this is clearly not in contravention to the spirit of the team order rules, presumabley the other teams (Ferrari and Renault who were directly affected) think the same as they are not protesting, the FIA have not seen fit to investigate. i would also expect any other team to do pretty much the same, and also for no-one to bat an eyelid.
if we are going to get excited about this now, start bandying around "hypocrites" and double standards, then perhaps we should start with Brazil last year, where a faster Massa moved over to let Kimi past - not net gain in the result for the team, but a gain for the driver? however there is no reason to, it was a perfectly reasonable call given the circumstances. if we are going to examine every decision to the veryt leter of the regulations then there is no point in watching, every situation has its own unique set of motives, circumstances and outcomes - F1 is never going to be black and white, particularly when looking at sporting regs rather than technical ones.
if there was a clear rule breach there would be something being done, all there actually is are a few people who like an opportunity to play the downtrodden and imagine what the outcome may have been if the situation were reversed, based on an assumpition of peoples motives in a quite different set of circumstances several years ago, yet it is the "McLaren fans" who are apparently losing credibility. isn't it time for common sense to prevail?
if you disagree with the move then fine, and i'd hope you'd do the same regardless of the teams involved. if you think this is a situation that would be perfectly reaosnable and to be expected regardless of the team then fine.
Im new here, so go easy...
Arent team radios monitored? If so then obviously if RD had told HK to let LH pass then they would have been punished. Telling him his teammates pace is not against the rules, leave it up to HK to make the decision. Its a team sport first and formost, personal glory second.
Anyway, HK seems like level headed guy, why would he race his teammate hard and possibly take them both out? Thats the worst thing you can do. I dont think he would. His pace was nowhere near LH's, no ones was in that race.
Comparing this to Austria 02/brazil 07 is like comparing a Cessna to a 747...
Hi there Rosco1. Welcome to the forums! And a nice sensible first post ;)
I don't see why people need to be branded as "McLaren Fanboys" if they don't dispute the team orders. It doesn't matter which team had swapped their drivers in that situation, it was the sensible thing to do. You would insist your team do the same as a team boss in any form of motor racing. And that doesn't make them McLaren Fanboys for supporting their team, does it?
Another point that hasn't been mentioned here (that I've seen);
If LH was brought into the pits, they'd have had to queue HK up behind him. McLaren chose to try get their best overall result by keeping LH out for longer. They sort of dropped their lead driver for the benefit of the 2nd driver who did not have to wait in queues. HK returned the favour later on in the race in helping LH get back into his position. Was it forced by the team? I'd like to think that HK is smart enough not to need team orders to tell him what to do in that situation.
You need help :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by 555-04Q2
Why? I want Kimi to win. :rolleyes: and If Msasa wins, great!! So what's your point?Quote:
Originally Posted by mstillhere