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Who said anything about rigged? Even NASCAR gets away with giving someone the call. Just a combination of circumstances. Right?!
Castroneves lets her by because he thought she was a lap down? Her win wasn't nearly as convincing as that Swiss chick in the Long Beach Atlantic opener.
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Originally Posted by weeflyonthewall
Do you honestly think that if Helio let her by for any other reason that no one else on the team knew it and you could keep that sort of information contained? I don't. Sorry. Normally you and I see pretty much eye to eye. But not on this one.
Gary
Scoring a race from the cockpit of a race car has cost many people victories. Including Jimmy Clark.Quote:
Originally Posted by weeflyonthewall
No, you're reaching now. I'll own up to my mistake. I thought that Manning had won in CART, when it was actually Ryan Hunter-Reay. Sorry, I got the records of two (obscure) drivers confused. It's not a case of first it was this and now it's that. My position on Danica has been the same for a very long time. Spin it as you choose. You seem to have it in your mind that anyone and everyone who doesn't care for Danica Patrick is a misogynist. If that's how you see the world, it's not my job to change your mind. Are there people who don't like her simply because she's a female? Absolutely. There was a poster on the F1 forum who admitted that his main reason for not liking Lewis Hamilton was because he's Black. But not EVERY person who dislikes Danica is a woman hater and not every person who dislikes Hamilton is a cross burner. But like Hillary Clinton seemed to believe, with group & identity followers, if you're not on the bandwagon of the PC hero du jour, you're a bigot of some type. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrambide
So, what she has as a racing driver has nothing to do with why she gets bashed (is "bash" group & identity codespeak for any and all criticism?). Other drivers, who are not nearly as high profile as Danica, and don't get ANY broad coverage, good or bad... they don't get any focus when they make mistakes? Imagine that. And her fame has nothing to do with it, eh? I guess it must be misogyny. Odd that Dixon said that what he said about Patrick got so much press because it was about Danica. He seems to believe that anything said in relation to her gets more press than if said about any other driver. He's probably a misogynist too. Ed Carpenter? Misogynist. Only good things should be said about Danica. Anything short of that? Misogyny.Quote:
The part about what does she has going for her, why she is a media darling, that has nothing to do with the point Iīm discussing, the point is why she gets bash while other drivers either donīt get a single comment or just a few when they do the same mistakes or say the same things.
Find a post where I've (EVER) said that she's not good enough to be in the IRL and I'll give you my lucky dollar. What I've said, and what I'll continue to say is that she is overhyped and overrated based on her accomplishments as a racing driver. As a celebrity, I have no quarrel with her on that one.Quote:
Is she a great driver?, not in my book, should TV, newspapers and other media outlets spend so much time on her?, not in my book, but I do welcome the attention we certainly wouldnīt be receiving without her, is she the worst driver in the IRL?, no she is not, I think she is better than a lot of the current drivers, I think she is just a little better than mediocre, but she certainly is good enough to be in the IRL, specially when you see some of the other drivers, should she be calling out other drivers?, heck no, she is a driver with only one win, mediocre drivers donīt get to talk like that, but the same goes to the male mediocre drivers.
I think your conclusion is overly simplistic on both ends. Sarah Fisher is a girl, yet she's taking donations to keep racing. If Milka Duno's husband wasn't more connected than Don Corleone, she'd have never set foot in a race car (and she wasn't that bad early on - she just got a very late start in life to race). And there's no doubt about Milka's gender - Stevie Wonder would know she's a female. What's Ianina Zanazzi and Sara Senke up to these day? They were both girls of moderate talent. There's more to the Danica! phenomenon than her JUST being a female. Her gender makes her somewhat unique in auto racing, but she and her media people have built a nice franchise. Some of us say that the franchise is bogus in its enormity, in terms of her being measured as a racing driver.Quote:
So, obviously, if she is not that good, why does the medias and many new fans give her so much attention?, because she is a girl?, is this fair? of course not, but then again, why does she gets much more heat by some fans than other male drivers when they do the same mistakes or say the same dumb stuff?, for the same reason, she is a girl.
All the same fans, huh? Well, we've already established that we're all women haters, who believe in keepin' 'em barefoot & pregnant. I assume that's German you wrote? I don't like Germans... as I didn't like Michael Schumacher. I rode him a lot harder than I ride Danica. And don't speak French. I didn't like Prost at all - so I'm prejudiced against Frenchmen. Forget about speaking Japanese too. I spent much bandwidth making fun of Shiggy Hattori back in the day - so I'm obviously prejudiced against Asians.Quote:
The most amusing part about it all, is that the same fans that complain about the fact she gets threated differently for being a girl, are the same fans that threat her different because she is a girl, they are doing exactly the same, Iīm just trying to pint the hypocrisy of it all, "Ein Esel schilt den andern Langohr."
Gee, I didn't know how bad I was. I guess I'll have to start watching races with David Duke. Excuse me now, while I go pray for the (putrid) soul of Jesse Helms.
BTW, my views on Danica pretty much mirror those of a female racing champion. I bet she's a misogynist too. An unfortunate self-hating woman. She needs to get on the Danica Apologists Bandwagon before it's too late.
Jag-Warrior, Iīm reaching but then you assume I called a misogynist?, I never said you or any other member or racing fan was one, never said people that dislike her are women haters, I dislike her, a lot, go back since the first races she had in the IRL, I have always complain about all the press she gets and the media attention she received before even winning a single race (I disliked the attention Legge received during her CC years), but I also complain about the opposite, she receiving way more attention for saying dumb things or making mistakes.
I was one of the first persons to criticize her a couple of races ago when she called almost every one amateur and stupid, I think I even opened a thread (using your own theory I just called me a women hater), but when Manning does the same and I also criticize him and see the huge difference, no one complains about Manning, but Patrick is call a few different names I canīt but to think that she gets lots of undeserving attention (good and bad attention) because she is a girl, yes, the good press is not only because she is a girl, her swimsuit or small shorts pictures help, her PR people help too, but the fact she si a girl is a huge part of her undeserving attention, the good and the bad.
And for the record, no, I donīt think every one that criticizes DP is doing it because she is a girl, I have criticize her a lot of times, but obviously when you complain that people bash her for being a girl, you are indirectly accusing innocent people, but then again, "la nuit, tous les chats sont gris".
Let's not drag down one of the most incredible drag racers of our time. You're leaving out the fact that Shirley was primarily a dragster racer. She only raced in NHRA funny car for a couple of seasons.... then she got tired of getting burned up in enclosed spaces. Her wins and championships came in the Top Fuel category. Top Fuel was the fastest category, and that's where she made her name and legend. I'm not saying that she didn't get some press as "Cha Cha", but she didn't explode on the scene until she moved to Top Fuel and started taking on Big Daddy Don. She's said that "Cha Cha" was a name that Kalitta came up with and she didn't like it, because it was a name for a bimbo. It was the Top Fuel match races she did against Garlits that made Hot Rod, Car Craft and the magazines I read at that time.Quote:
Originally Posted by gofastandwynn
Didn't become a contender until the early 80's?! She won her first NHRA Championship in '77. She became the first NHRA racer to win three races in a row in '77. She won another NHRA Championship in '80. The media falling for her??? She won the NHRA Top Fuel Championship and placed 2nd in the AHRA Top Fuel Championship in the same year. From about 2001 forward, there's not a soul I would compare her accomplishments to in AOWR (not a male or female, not a CART, CCWS or IRL driver).Quote:
She didn't become a contender until the early 80's, but that didn't stop the media from falling for her.
With the legend that her dad is, plus the fact that she's attractive... and uh, plus the fact that she's actually a very good drag racer who has led the Funny Car points championship (I believe before she got her first win), won rounds and a national Funny Car event... yeah.Quote:
It is happening again with the press Ashley Force is getting.
I agree with that.Quote:
And don't even start with the "it is rigged" BS, because that is all it is, BS. If you think it is rigged, then don't watch.
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Originally Posted by jarrambide
This post^, yours, was the first post I saw in this thread that made a real issue of gender and bias. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by jarrambide
Fair enough.Quote:
And for the record, no, I donīt think every one that criticizes DP is doing it because she is a girl, I have criticize her a lot of times, but obviously when you complain that people bash her for being a girl, you are indirectly accusing innocent people,
Per favore, non parlar la lingua delle rane. Il gatto grande mangia la rana. :DQuote:
but then again, "la nuit, tous les chats sont gris".
She's too nervous in the car or just not concentrating, I won't call it driver ability or even gender issue. She's shown she can drive fast, twice starting on the front row on road courses don't come from a bad driver.
Quite a few open wheel drivers, including F1 drivers have crashed in the pits. See Hamilton in Mtl. The trouble is that Stompin' Danica seems to be making a career out of it.
This thread took a while to read, but overall some good points were made, only to end with the usual post that she messes up, but so did others. Well, if you screw up at work, is your defense going to be "well, so and so in another department did something stupid last week"? Yeah, that will work. NOT.
Judge the Helmet by her own record, don't try to justify her actions by deflection or dragging out unconnected events.
Why does she generate pages and pages of "commentary"? Perhaps each side needs to step back and look at the the other side.
Why do some fans idolize her?
Well a lot do, so there must be some reason. IMHO, she is the product of marketing, but any such product needs some substance. She is considered attractive to some, she has played up sexual stereotypes to get the young male demographic in a froth, she does have some real driving talent, she is extremely determined, and has played into the princess fantasy of a young attractive girl reaching a dream. She is, with out a doubt, a celebrity. Some see her aggressiveness on and off the track, and say "you go girl", and secretly wish they could get away with that in real life. She also has raced well enough to be considered a challenger, and has a win. If you idolize her for her celebrity, that is based on belief and image. Any negativity toward the focus of that image can be taken as a personal attack on those beliefs.
Why do some fans dislike her?
Some just because she is female and think females shouldn't be in racing. Like it or not, that is real. Some fans are so artificially macho they are threatened by strong women. Some are offended that she got to the top because of powerful mentors along the way, like Rahal. Another driver in another series (F1) gets the same negativity for the same reasons, but that has been part of racing since day 1. But IMHO, many hard core racers don't care much for her because she isn't a "real racer", her celebrity doesn't match her results. She wasn't a standout in Karting, or the British racing scene, (one good result from attrition), her short time in Barber Dodge was mediocre, she was better in Atlantics, and has been competitive in the IRL. Her very few forays into sportcars were dismal. Overall, an average driver. From time to time, the cry becomes - she doesn't belong in the IRL. But there are a number of average drivers in the IRL now and in the past.
Ok, what is my take? (not that it carries any weight)
Having spent a bit of time in racing working with a female running in a pro series, I have heard both sides of the argument. It exists for anyone not fitting some "racer" stereotype. What bothers me is that a look at Danica!'s portfolio shows lots of PR with typical PR "polish" and oversight, and an average driver with a serious attitude problem. (look at dear old Dad, she comes by it honestly) Without the PR, she would be a footnote, doing promotional drives for BMW (she did that - look it up). As a racer, she could never be called cerebral, but more of a stab it and steer driver, who has the courage to hold the throttle down and hang on, and quick reflexes to make it work. There appears to be no planning or strategy in her driving, just go. What worries me is that she doesn't seem that interested in working on improving her driving skills. She drives today just as she did in Atlantics. On ovals, she hugs the bottom, almost never tries an outside pass, and can be spooked easily. There is anecdotal evidence she also sometimes wonders all over the track, which is common for a racer driving purely by instinct, not thinking.
The very old proverb applies here "Old age and treachery will overcome youth and skill". She won't be young forever with fast reflexes, and if she wants a long career (I seriously doubt that), she better learn to think more on track, and drive more with her head than with her aggression. IMHO, racing for Danica is a vehicle to get celebrity and everything she and her family has done seems aimed at advancing her celebrity status, not becoming a better driver.
I honor the cerebral drivers who race for the love of racing rather than any reward, and get the most of what they have, and make very few mistakes (no driver is perfect). Drivers like Rick Mears, current drivers like Dixon, Helio, and even Kannan. Yeah sometimes they put the brain in neutral and just go for it, but much of the time they are in control of their driving, and especially their emotions. Danica seems out of control much of the time. As a former racer, an out of control racer worries me.
Ok, polishers and haters, rip it apart.