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I have been thinking about this and Eki's #48 post and find their arguments valid and already proven completely feasible by the event known as the Cuban Missle Crisis. Nobody wants a nuke popped on their own territory, no matter how big or small the country may be. I remember the Cuban deal and can remember neighbors that had bomb shelters in their back yards. The nuclear argument did keep the USA from messing around with Cuba again by agreement.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
Janeppi, Eki, If you believe that the North Korean's would be victims of the Stockholm syndrome, you might be right but I also think in a nation where people have been starved for no other reason than Kim's strange way of dealing with crisis you would have to believe that it wouldn't take long for many there to wonder what the truth was once the veil of secrecy is opened to the people there.
Are the people of North Korea paranoid. Only as paranoid as Kim Il Sung's wee little mind is. In any case, I don't have any time for the idea that he is in any way right, even if he is nuts. I do know this much though, Kim knows damned well the Americans are not coming any time soon. Most of his actions and provocations vs the Americans usually come when he needs more food aid or when the Americans are busy with another issue (Iraq).
That would happen only after the removal of Kim and his cronies and it happens only two ways, he get's the boot from his own people, which is unlikely, or by an outside military force which would first have to fight the people to liberate them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
How does can he be sure of it when in three years time US was the driving force behind two invasions to countries with the same kind of issues with US. If he can blackmail for concessions and food help, he's succeeded. If the threat of nuclear strike in Japan keeps Americans out, he's succeeded.Quote:
I do know this much though, Kim knows damned well the Americans are not coming any time soon.
The problem is that their government has convinced them that their starving is due to the West, not their government. Besides, I'd imagine the North Korean military is relatively well fed compared to many of the civilians. Even ancient Rome knew that an army marches on its stomach. In war, the soldiers always eat first and the civilians get what's left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa
Janeppi, the huge difference is the North Koreans are no threat to anyone in the immediate future. In spite of their massive buildup on the 38th Parallel, they have never bothered to invade the south because Kim and his father both knew that the US would help the South and likely so would the rest of the western world. The other factor you ignore is the control and influence the Chinese have. The Chinese use North Korea to annoy the Americans but when Kim gets a little too pushy, a little phone call from Beijing reminds Mr. Kim who really can control his nation. If North Korea was to ever fall, it wont be the Americans, I suspect the Chinese will engineer the change.Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
The Americans would have invaded a long time ago if they thought it would help things, but as long as the Chinese back Kim, no one is invading. Which is why North Korea getting nuclear weapons is annoying everyone, including the Chinese. America is quite happy to just put up big front, knowing that in reality, it is Beijing that controls Kim....
I don't think America would have invaded North Korea at all prior to 9/11. People forget that the Korean War was a United Nations Police Action with many more nations than just America fighting with the South Koreans to restore the politically created 38th parallel.
There had been many provocations since the ceasefire that could have been used as a reason to invade.
Take away 9/11 and there is no way Bush or any other president would have gotten permission to invade anybody.
It's very simple...Quote:
Originally Posted by janneppi
There is nothing, at present, that North Korea has that is of interest to the US ( in the form of fossil fuels, precious metals & minerals, or refined stock). But attacking a trade partner, (South Korea, Japan, Southeast Asian countries, or even China [Nationalist or Communist]) is a different story altogether. Whenever Kim decides to 'rattle his saber' at other nations within the region in general, and Western ones in specific, he gets attention. The 'trick' is to keep it from going too far, as he knows that the 'folks in Bejing' might take exception to that.
It's the impetus behind all motions of Foreign Affairs, or as Al Capone put it...
"... If somebody messes with me, I'm gonna mess with Him."
Bush only got permission to invade Afghanistan, yet he decided to invade also Iraq and with a much greater force.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fiero 5.7
Eki, much greater force was required, and while you say Iraq is an illegal invasion, I say it isn't. Technically Bush is enforcing the UN resolutions. Now the UN said they didn't want that, but the UN as we well know never does anything if the Security council is split and it is often split for no reason other than the Chinese and Russians don't want anyone to do anything.....
AT some point, the UN either is to have meaning with its resolutions, or they are hot air. I say if Bush didn't back the resolutions with a threat of invasion, then they are meaningless.....
Even without any vetos, the US and Britain weren't going to get the needed support for their latest draft of resolution, so they decided not to bother presenting it and simply circumvent the UN.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark in Oshawa