The New Car

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Originally Posted by Marbles

Would it be possible for the ICS to desing a cockpit\safety cell and allow manufacturers to design a car around it?

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With some tight specs on a rear crush zone BEYOND the cell, this is an EXCELLENT idea!

Gary

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Originally Posted by shazbot

?? IRL crash test regs are nothing compared to those implemented in F1. The Panoz DP01 had to pass the F1 front and side impact tests as well. I'd argue the Dallara is at the end of it's life and the series could do with a safer car like the al the other higher level open wheels series.

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Do you know how fast the F1 crash testing speed is? 15 m/s, or 33 miles per hour. Steve Matchett recently went on a rant about that on Speed F1 coverage about the low speed of the crash testing. Is it starting to show? Well, Kubica's feet were clearly exposed in his accident at Montreal last year, and you could clearly see daylight through Kovalainen footbox in Barcelona. And they hit at less speeds than what you would see on an oval...

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Originally Posted by call_me_andrew

There are too many small features that wouldn't easily carry over. For example, the DP01's gearbox was designed to be especially cheap. The Dallara's gearbox was designed to act as a crumple zone in a rear first collision. A gearbox like the DP01's crashing rear first on an oval would have F1 like results.

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I have no insight into the specifics of the DP01 gearbox, and whether or not it has the structural integrity to absorb enough energy during an oval crash. But I'd imagine that it would be something that could be modified. I suppose there is a point where too many modifications make it more practical to start from scratch. I'm not convinced that anyone who posts on this forum (aside from maybe Hoop98) has that knowledge.

Here's another guy that might have some insight into the DP01's specifics...
http://archive.motorsportforums.com/...&userid=23508&

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Originally Posted by gofastandwynn

Do you know how fast the F1 crash testing speed is? 15 m/s, or 33 miles per hour. Steve Matchett recently went on a rant about that on Speed F1 coverage about the low speed of the crash testing. Is it starting to show? Well, Kubica's feet were clearly exposed in his accident at Montreal last year, and you could clearly see daylight through Kovalainen footbox in Barcelona. And they hit at less speeds than what you would see on an oval...

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The IRL car would not pass many (any?) of the FIA tests. Obviously there are more tests other than front impact and of course F1 cars don't generally see the kind of impacts that oval race cars can be subject too. Both Kubica's accident and Kovalainen's was a testiment to the safety of the cars. I just think that crash test regs need to be updated for the IRL, and I'm sure they will be with any new rule set that is announced.

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Originally Posted by gofastandwynn

Do you know how fast the F1 crash testing speed is? 15 m/s, or 33 miles per hour. Steve Matchett recently went on a rant about that on Speed F1 coverage about the low speed of the crash testing. Is it starting to show? Well, Kubica's feet were clearly exposed in his accident at Montreal last year, and you could clearly see daylight through Kovalainen footbox in Barcelona. And they hit at less speeds than what you would see on an oval...

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Originally Posted by shazbot

The IRL car would not pass many (any?) of the FIA tests. Obviously there are more tests other than front impact and of course F1 cars don't generally see the kind of impacts that oval race cars can be subject too. Both Kubica's accident and Kovalainen's was a testiment to the safety of the cars. I just think that crash test regs need to be updated for the IRL, and I'm sure they will be with any new rule set that is announced.

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Testament to the safety of the cars? You have to be kidding right? Kubica's feet were exposed and you could see daylight in the footbox of Kovalainen's car and this is a testament to their safety? No I'm sorry, it is a testament to how LUCKY these two guys were.

Gary

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Originally Posted by shazbot

The IRL car would not pass many (any?) of the FIA tests. Obviously there are more tests other than front impact and of course F1 cars don't generally see the kind of impacts that oval race cars can be subject too. Both Kubica's accident and Kovalainen's was a testiment to the safety of the cars. I just think that crash test regs need to be updated for the IRL, and I'm sure they will be with any new rule set that is announced.

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The Dallara was tested to "exceed FIA standards" and passed all crash test standards. The F-1 chassis came apart at speeds a lot slower than what a crash at Indy would be.

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Originally Posted by gofastandwynn

The Dallara was tested to "exceed FIA standards" and passed all crash test standards. The F-1 chassis came apart at speeds a lot slower than what a crash at Indy would be.

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Simply not true.

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Originally Posted by shazbot

Simply not true.

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http://www.indycar.com/tech/images/dallara_car.jpg

Yea, I guess not...

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Originally Posted by shazbot

Simply not true.

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Specifics??? Or is this more of the "testament to the saftey of the F1 cars" sort of thinking?

Gary

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Originally Posted by gofastandwynn

http://www.indycar.com/tech/images/dallara_car.jpg

Yea, I guess not...

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I don't understand what the above info proves? I'm not saying that the IRL car is unsafe, just that an F1 car in a typical F1 accident (if there can ever be a typical accident) is safer than an IRL car. Can you honestly say that you would rather have Kubica's accident in a Dallara that his BMW? Kubica's crash was an almighty impact, and the fact that he all but walked away is a testiment to it safety. Yes you could see his feet, but he suffered no injury. The chassis protected him.

My contribution to this thread was merely to suggest that the new IRL car needs to be the safest car for obvious reasons. For example an IRL chassis will not pass an FIA F1 holl hoop test. The rear of the IRL tub is a bolt on alluminium panel which is simply not strong enough to resist the load applied to the roll hoop. Based on the various accidents in the last few years in the IRL that cars have landed upside down the IRL car is still pretty stout. I may be wrong but I think in one of Dario's accidents the roll hoop did fail though.