Kresta Racing test new Fabia R5
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4602288&type=3
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Kresta Racing test new Fabia R5
https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?...4602288&type=3
I know this is just what a lot of people here deem as a silly Photoshop exercise but c'mon, this would be good!
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMxcKMKWoAA1Zvf.png
Wasn't Fiat going to return with the 500x?
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Few (4-5) years ago when idea of R5 cars was mentioned for first time the Fiat company said they are thinking about using Lancia Ypsilon as R5 car. But it was all, just thinking about it and nothing more. Moreover Lancia is dead, isn´t she? (it must be SHE, Lancia is a legend and can´t be called IT) Anyway Fiat 500X is "auto stupido , mamma mia" (sorry I was on vacation in Rome last week and I am still in half italian mode :-D ) I think Fiat 500X is big and it is not proper car for rallying...but Mini Countryman is the same story. ...HaCo, have you really heard something about Fiat 500X from reliable source?
Is there even somebody left in Fiat who can build it? AFAIK the people responsible for Punto S2000 moved to Lotus to take part in the infamous Exige R-GT story.
This story seems to suggest that some FCA executives want Lancia to make a new Delta Integrale before winding the brand down.
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/ne...e-could-return
Though Sergio Marchionne doesn't seem at all interested in doing that. If you ask me if they keep Lancia going they should make a Golf R/A45 AMG/Focus RS rival i.e. a new Delta Integrale and a new Stratos. But then my opinion is worth chuff all.
Any Swedes that know if there is some movement on the Mitsubishi Mirage project?
7 rallies so far : http://ewrc-results.com/cars.php?cid...ishi-Mirage-R5
Finnish Hannu´s Rally Team shall have a Fabia R5 for 2016 season.
yes they are returning since 2000... give them a minute and they will be here...Quote:
Originally Posted by HaCo
Team FJ too
Attachment 748
Yeah it is national regs only for the moment. It is built to specs but not homologated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulland
It's second ever rally, first stage went past my parents house so I had a front row seat. It came second overall and was only beaten by an ex works prodrive Subaru.
Dunno how well it would fare in competition with other R5s though. It beat a couple of WRC Fords and Octavias so it can't be too slow.
I have some pictures and some video that I can share when I am not on a satellite connection!
I am not sure what keeps it from homologation though. Three customers in sweden have taken delivery so it must be ready for sale...
I thought Mitsubishi told them they couldn't homologate it? It would need their permission and they weren't willing to put their stamp on it.
If that is true, it could be the same as the Abu Dhabi deal that they killed a few years ago that recently came (back) to light.
The Mitsubishi mirage will run in South swedish rally in september. That rally is a part of the norwegian-swedish "nation-battle" together with Norways rally Hedmarken.
Eyvind Brynhildsen, Anders grøndal, Fredrik åhlin and others is doing this rally, so there we have a good match for it.
If Mpart AB is going only for national homologation perhaps they just need the help from Mitsubishi Sweden, that seems to be a partner from day one. But it hould be a shame that this little funny car doesn't get a full international FIA homologation.Quote:
Originally Posted by dodge33cymru
Så Skarderud, din Veslehamring 😎, if they will get homologation in Sweden, then it could easier get the same in Norway, could it not. Or would that be believing in Santa Claus??Quote:
Originally Posted by skarderud
I know that atleast 3 drivers in Norway want to by this Mitsubishi, so hopefully the norwegian federation will do something unexpekted;)@
What could Mitsubishi possibly gain from not homologating it? It is literally free marketing. Sure if it is uncompetitive they might come in bad light but I still feel like taking part is better than not taking part at all.
After all, their group N evos usually compete in the same classes as the R5s in national competition so they are not exactly in good light already.
If I remember correctly there was a Fiesta R5 in Skilling 500 also. The full start list is not on ewrc so I'd need to check my rally program. In any case it finished second behind a very experienced guy in a Prodrive Subaru (Co driven by my sisters old classmate... Funny how small the world is sometimes) so it can't be that slow.
Is it maybe the same case as the Hyundai team, that there isn't enough production units of it? Or something like that?
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I don't agree or do You think that the epic fails of MSD with MG or Opel helped the brands somehow? In my opposite it was exactly opposite. MEM with proton managed to get their car on quite competitive level and despite them being cheaper then the competitors they still sold nearly no cars at all as the more expensive competitors had faster and more reliable machines. R5 is very very difficult class to build a competitive machine and You can see that even Peugeot Sport/Citroën Racing failed miserably. You can only dream about some private car being competitive there.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely nothing against private teams developing cars but I do understand why manufacturers are very careful to support them. It's a big game and if You want to play it You need to put a lot in. That's why Škoda is where it is (if we speak about R5).
MSD and MG is a project I don't know anything about. Weren't they involved in the Hyundai Accident WRC? (intentional :) )Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Somehow I still believe that it gets the name across... If proton was available for Purchase in sweden and they had still been competing (and did an actual hot hatch) I could consider buying it even though it would not be mega competitive.
I did actually consider buying a 208 GTI because LOOK AT THAT 208 R5, daaaaaaamn! (*drool*) Economy and sense made sure I bought another, newer 206 GTI instead. Citroën DS3 was also considered but their engines are too weak (and the DS3 racing look silly and was a limited run).
If I had taken anything from the ERC and the WRC 2 with me in those considerations, I would have come to the conclusion that 208s run 5 km and then break down, badly. I didn't however because many more factors than pure performance played in.
As a kid I had not heard about neither Skoda not Hyundai but thanks to their WRC participation I subsequently knew about them. I didn't care much for the Accident but I did drool a bit over the Skoda vRS models (after counting my weekly allowance and realising that I'd die before I'd buy a 206 GTI with that aloowance).
Now I am adult and my allowance is bigger so I bought two 206 GTI instead (because ultimately it was better looking and Grönholm is cooler than Roman Kresta!).
I think participating does matter. If I was a kid this summer and saw a Mirage blast past my parents front lawn, I'd be interested! I'd read that rally program that we got in the mailbox a million times over and the car would stick in my memory (because it isn't horribly hideous).
Also Skoda is where they are because the VW wrc team has shared their knowledge with Skoda, I'm sure!
Yes, it's the same team.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Really nice text, thank You for that. I'm sometimes probably too serious to enjoy some dreams and well-meant wishes. It's most likely because I work in car industry and know how it goes there (I don't work in Škoda, actually nearly all my projects were for Ford). I think I won't change and stay skeptical. It has one advantage, You are rarely disappointed :pQuote:
Originally Posted by itix
Actually it was the opposite way at the beginning of WV WRC adventure. For example the Polo WRC suspension is a near copy-paste of Fabia S2000 modified for Sachs dampers and with suspension travel enlarged to the extreme. Fabia R5 again goes against the trend and has completely different suspension geometry than other cars. Sachs dampers on Fabia R5 are more a case of VAG internal politics as Škoda wanted to stay with Reiger (if I have good information). I guess that there was some cooperation regarding the engine though.Quote:
Originally Posted by itix
Now I need to read about the MG... There can't be stuff I don't know about rallying (the shaaaaame)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
That text above is in my opinion why rallying is better marketing proposition than Formula racing. I can't imagine a kid seeing a Mercedes and then reading a car magazine and think wow, I bet that is just as fast as the formula car. They don't even look the same (sorry in advance to any formula racing fans... I have fallen out of love with F1 again so I'm bitter. Third time now and I don't imagine I'll fall back in love anytime soon).
Thanks for the info on VW and Skoda. I learnt something new also today :)
Mirage R5 this weekend, 2nd overall (and Mats Jonsson still winning with Escort WRC) : http://ewrc-results.com/final.php?e=...Askersund-2015
Jonsson, it is. ;)
Ups :)
Nice result for Johansson and his little Mirage! He managed to beat Friberg's DS3 R5 and his ss times showed a hell of a progression during the rally: http://www.resultatservice.com/rally...t/1result.html
What about the other Mirage (#31, Martin Berglund), did he started?
According to list of retired cars (brutna) Berglund retired before SS1 for technical reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rally Power
Thanks!
You're being harsh regarding MSD's S2000 efforts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
The MG project was supported by Nanjing, at the time MG brand owner, but Nanjing was then acquired by SAIC (a chinese automotive giant, that previously had buy Rover assets (apart the brand name) and manage to move the industrial tools from Birmingham to China, producing locally the 75 under the name of...Roewe!), and SAIC stopped funding MSD. The few ZR R5 built units were never properly developed and ended in private hands across the UK. https://youtu.be/VdeNpzLEZDM
Then MSD turned to Opel, resurrecting a strong ancient link (back to the Gr.A Astras), but due to GM financial collapse after the US subprime crisis, Opel sport activities were pulverized. Again, lack of development never allow to fulfill the car potential, showed in some IRC and national championships (Germany/Ireland) outings. https://youtu.be/-nKql5B6rsU
I still believe that private tuners can sort a competitive R5 cars, these aren't so technically demanding like you pretend, but obviously manufacturers teams will always get an advantage.
PS: Pug and Citro R5 cars problems seems to be linked with a limitation design of the standard engine block. Regarding the makes bright record in high-tec WRC, we can think they're struggling with R5 regs restrictions!
I don't think that R5 are so technically demanding but it needs (absolutely needs) and incredible amount of testing to sort everything out. The limitation to some stock part, weight limits for suspension parts etc. make them very very hard to tune to something both fast and somewhat reliable. It's very expensive to run such testing program but it's a must. Also don't forget there is a 3-years old homologation cycle and once You homologate something wrong You are fucked (as the engine block of PSA cars).
You are right that the problem with MSD S2000 projects was that those were underfunded. But that is exactly my point. You can't expect from private projects to have funding like factory ones and that's why there is a high risk they will end similar like those MSD projects.
One of the purposes of the Mirage R5 is to be available for Evo's owners at a fraction of the cost of others R5 cars. If Mpart manage to do it, why should anyone criticize them? The car seems to be well sorted and for national purposes it could be a viable option for all those Mitsu supported teams or dealers, tired of rallying old Evos. Having these in mind, for sure Mitsubishi Motors shouldn't be embarrassed to allow the Swedes car international homologation.
R5 market shouldn't be an exclusive of official manufacturers, and for sure there's a space for low-cost cars designed having in mind private drivers needs and aspirations.
I have never said that R5 shall be an exclusive thing for manufacturers. What I said is that there are very good reasons why Mitsubishi may not want to support the project. You can find of course positives like You named some but there are also negatives like for example those which I named. It's up to Mitsubishi to decide whether they want to be connected with the project or not. In this moment it looks like they don't want to do so.
Mitsubishi it's more about electric cars nowadays. They seem to support a Masuoka effort with a e-Baja car and some efforts on the electric class in Pikes Peak. But as my fellow countryman said, it's a shame, because some good drivers could use the better price (at least announced) to have a R5. I would like to see for example a guy like Adruzilo Lopes in one, since with his old N14 he brings the fight to the guys in S2000 and R5
It doesn't work like that. If it was the rally world would be flooded with old Puntos S2000, Proton etc. Few years back You could buy a Punto S2000 cheaper than to build a new gr.N car but nobody was buying them. Nobody was even interested to rent them for price lower then good gr.N car (I know one particular case for an IRC rally). Just have a look how quickly the slow cars disappear. Can You today meet a Punto S2000 on stages? Actually they disappeared almost from day to day already several years a go. There were around 70 of them built. How about much faster Fiesta S2000? Few are still around but it's a fraction of their number. There is few Peugeots 207 already and those were the most numerous of all. Even the most developed Fabias S2000 start to disappear.
It has one simple reason. The machines must be competitive. Even a cheap S2000/R5 is expensive enough to become a big money thrown out of the window if it's not competitive. The cheap but non-competitive cars have the only chance to exist - their own class or cups. Otherwise they are bound to fail.
A nice video from Rally Askersund: two brief appearances of Johansson's good looking Mirage (2:25 and 9:05), a lot of Volvo's slides and an amazing on the limit recovery (5.19).
https://youtu.be/dL7Rr8V_GAk
I have a summer house in eastern sweden close to East Sweden Rally together with mom. We were thinking to go there if she manage to find someone to look after her animals. She got hooked on Rally after the Skilling 500 passed her house hahaha. If I go, I'll try to take pics of the Mirage.
Healthy competition too. Four DS3 R5's and five Fiesta R5's...
I think one problem with the S2000 cars are the running costs that are too high for privateers.
How is it with the rebuilding and periodic maintenance on S2000 and R5 cars? Is it possible for a private team to rebuild the engine and other parts or do they have to send the parts to the manufacturer’s workshop for rebuild?
I think only engines must be sent to manus workshop at the specified kms interval. It'll be interesting to know if the Mirage engine maintenance will be less demanding.
Occasianally yes: http://rallirinki.kuvat.fi/kuvat/Mik...4/IMG_2963.jpg Every now and then this Punto is entered in small Finnish events, but for sure it's not competetive anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirek
Interesting fact from last weekend's FRC Turku where Juha Salo was saved by the R5 regulations. It was a two-day event with two night stages run late in Friday evening. On first stage the oil dipstick on Salo's 208 R5 got loose somehow, oil was spilt on the engine bay and it started a fire. Some damages were caused to wiring and other parts of the engine. Also camshaft cover (?) was damaged. The team thought they'd had a spare at their garage back home, but apparently they didn't. They studied the regulations more and found out that this part from a normal road car could be used in the rally car. This is why the team owns one 208 road car and keeps it with them at the rallies. So, a long night ahead for the mechanics, but Salo got to start Day 2 under Rally2 rule with parts of his 208 R5 engine borrowed from a stock car. He was the fastest driver of the day, but the time penalties kept him last in class. He still got few points which could come valuable as only one event left in the championship and Salo's points lead was cut short in Turku. Salo and Vainionpää (in DS3 R5) will decide the championship in Tampere in three weeks time.
Nasser rolled at Lebanon
https://scontent-fra3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...86&oe=566580EF
wasnt a section for Middle East rallies?